I wish I'd understood this 6 months ago. W and I argued about $$ all the time, if I'd just said, "look you spend too much. I'm not trying to control you, but lets divide out money. I'll pay the bills out of a joint account and we can each have our oen personal accounts for spending money", it would have been such a positive move in our M.
Instead W left, and eventually said "if we get back together I want sepperate finances". I took this as "I don't want to commit". Another opportunity lost to be strong and enforce healthy boundaries.
Live and learn.
M:37 W:34 M:4 years T:6 years No Kids A disclosed - 9/1/2010 W asks for separation - 10/19/2010 Moving on - 10/24/2010 A ends (and I believe her) - 12/2010 Content - 3/1/2011 Served - 3/18/2011 D Day - 6/20/2011
So many people argue about money. My W and I have kept our seperate accounts the whole time. We transefer money back and forth to each other to cover things but she had hers and I had mine.
NFTP, If you talk to her agree with her. Validate her feelings about the money issue. She most likely saw your argueing with her as trying to control her. Seperate your credit cards, all of it. If she gets herself in debt its not your problem.
We aren't talking and I'm moving to another state. I'm not in the mood for working on things right now either. It would take a lot from her.
In 6 months we have to deal with our house. It will be the thing that causes one of us to file I bet. I'm about 90% sure the idea of R will come up at that point. Unless and until that happens there is no point to talking about money.
But your point is well taken.
M:37 W:34 M:4 years T:6 years No Kids A disclosed - 9/1/2010 W asks for separation - 10/19/2010 Moving on - 10/24/2010 A ends (and I believe her) - 12/2010 Content - 3/1/2011 Served - 3/18/2011 D Day - 6/20/2011
Wouldn't that apply with any destructive behavior? Addiction presents a different issue but abuse (mental,physical,verbal), infidelity, financial irresponsiblity, poor parenting, all would require the behavior to be addressed as well regardless of the self improvment required.
Well, not according to the text no... That's my point... That there are different levels of severity in waywardness and the text handles them with different approaches...
The milder waywardness involves the "work on you" business that is often discussed here...
Once someone files for divorce or separation kick in, or then you are in Last Resort Technique...
And if there's addictions or obsessions plaguing the home this is an even more severe case and for this the text points out that the addict needs to be addressed directly in order to motivate some changes.
This is just how the text lays this out... Not saying I don't agree with you...
The problem for me is that the very words that are used point someone in (imo) an ineffective direction. "Addressing the behavior" is a parental and controlling thought and attitude. Nobody can change anyone else. Period. Any changes must come as the choice of the one making the changes. I can only change myself.
So instead of "addressing the behavior" I have found it to be infinitely more effective to frame it as "addressing my needs." This points towards the only person I really have any control over, that is myself.
There seems to be a false dichotomy that there are only two options in this. One being a (faux) "boundary" that is controlling and parental and the other being a "doormat." Neither is effective in creating healthy boundaries, in my experience. This is an area where I am evidently not in agreement with MWD.
Also, while problems of addictions are certainly very real and very painful when they are present, my experience has been that they are not in the majority of hurting marriages. It is an extreme case, which is ideally met by programs that specialize in such matters.
The problem for me is that the very words that are used point someone in (imo) an ineffective direction. "Addressing the behavior" is a parental and controlling thought and attitude. Nobody can change anyone else. Period. Any changes must come as the choice of the one making the changes. I can only change myself.
So instead of "addressing the behavior" I have found it to be infinitely more effective to frame it as "addressing my needs." This points towards the only person I really have any control over, that is myself.
There seems to be a false dichotomy that there are only two options in this. One being a (faux) "boundary" that is controlling and parental and the other being a "doormat." Neither is effective in creating healthy boundaries, in my experience. This is an area where I am evidently not in agreement with MWD.
I tend to agree with you, Arnie. In business, we learned it this way:
"Look, the person who sits in that office over there (point to the employee's office) IS going to get to work on time every day, and the person who sits in that office IS going to make the required number of new business calls, and they ARE going to put in a full day's work. Now, WHETHER OR NOT THAT PERSON IS YOU, is entirely up to you. I suggest you go home and think about it, and come back in the morning and let me know if you want to be that person."
If I remember her thread correctly, Pearharbor did this beautifully -- she told her boyfriend "Look, this is what I need from a relationship. Whether or not you can be the one to provide it, I'm just not sure anymore," and she left that UP TO HIM.
Also, while problems of addictions are certainly very real and very painful when they are present, my experience has been that they are not in the majority of hurting marriages. It is an extreme case, which is ideally met by programs that specialize in such matters.
Arnie, are you counting affairs as being addictions? Because I do, and from reading these forums since I joined, there sure seems to be infidelity involved in a LOT of them.
One being a (faux) "boundary" that is controlling and parental and the other being a "doormat."
I have boundaries in all of my relationships - marriage, parent, son, professional, coaching, and teaching. Doesn't make them parental.
It's not controlling to say to someone your behavior is causing problems and if it doesn't change it will effect our relationship. I am not trying to change them, it's their choice how they behave.
The added benefit as a man is that women really respect you and are attracted to men who know who they are. She wants to know what you think and believe not what you need. A woman doesn't want someone else who has needs she is supposed to take care of. Women are keenly aware of when they are behaving badly. They love a strong man who can call them out on it. Ask around and watch other relationships.
M22,H45,W45 S21/18D12 Retain faith that you will prevail in the end, regardless of the difficulties and at the same time confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.
The added benefit as a man is that women really respect you and are attracted to men who know who they are. She wants to know what you think and believe not what you need. A woman doesn't want someone else who has needs she is supposed to take care of. Women are keenly aware of when they are behaving badly. They love a strong man who can call them out on it. Ask around and watch other relationships.
Totally concur.
I am in boundary making phase. All except one last night have received silent welcome. The latest one caused her to say "This one is not going to get us anywhere."
So I agreed.
I guess I clashed with her boundaries. Border skirmishes happen when two civilizations grow close to each other.
