In your case, things do seem to be working and I encourage you to re-read my last post, although for benefit of Starsky309 and FrankV, I would like to clarify one statement.
Starsky, you are right. The OW is another source. What I really meant to say is without push or pull from Zen herself. Furthermore, Zen, I believe you could be right in that sometimes the OW - when things start cooling down - start going down the same road of overpursuit themselves. That is why I think it is very wise - given your current observations - to continue with your current approach.
I also agree with Starsky in that in some cases - where affairs are hot and heavy - no one is going to make much headway. That is the whole point of dropping back, protecting yourself and abandoning overpursuit. However, many affairs begin to die of their own accord and this could very well be happening in the present case.
While I know some of the other posters here are supporting you and looking out for you, I would avoid one size fits all interpretations of what is behind someone's affair or what explains it. With all due repsect to them, your backing off at the right time may be the one thing that could save your relationship. Conversely - your boring into them, pursuing them, trying to steer them right, whatever you want to call it, may be the worst thing you can do.
Indeed, each case stands on its own. In your case - the one that matters to you - the classic DB approach you are using seems to be working and this does not surprise me.
I just left another post, but wanted to add one more thing. Go easy on the therapist appointment. Be patient with this. I believe you are close to where this could go OK but I don't think you're there yet. I'm sure you have a talented therapist eager to ply their skills and help you! And at the right time they can and will.
By all means - if your H brings it up - then without getting overly excited about it calmly let him know you think it would be a good idea, too.
I also agree with Starsky in that in some cases - where affairs are hot and heavy - no one is going to make much headway. That is the whole point of dropping back, protecting yourself and abandoning overpursuit. However, many affairs begin to die of their own accord and this could very well be happening in the present case.
I guess that's impossible to tell without any good independent evidence in Zen's case. It's all just guesswork.
While I know some of the other posters here are supporting you and looking out for you, I would avoid one size fits all interpretations of what is behind someone's affair or what explains it.
Who's doing that? I was specifically trying to figure out, for example, if OW's specific behavior might be turning off Zen's husband (rather than just assume it was, or -- opposite -- assume all's fine in paradise).
That seemed like a cheap shot to me, OYS2. If that wasn't directed at me, then maybe I'm misreading you. I'm just trying to help.
Secondly, as I stated up front, there is no question anyone posting here is using their valuable time to help and support. That is beyond dispute.
Third, you're right, there is by definition some guess work involved in this kind of situation. Yet, as long as you understand this, sometimes it's all you have to go on. And yet, sometimes certain behaviors by one person do follow proactive strategies used by the other.
Finally, to disagree (you'll also notice statements of agreement, too) in whole or part does not mean I disrespect.
Wow, I took my girl to story time after work, then thought I would see if anyone posted before I crashed for the night. Thank you all for your support and help! Just having a place to go where the automatic answer is not “run for your life!” is so helpful.
Because answering all of your questions and considering your advice has really helped me to regain my focus, I will try to answer some of the questions that were posted while I was dancing to “Shake, Shake, Shake Your Wiggles Out” with my 3yr old this evening. : )
Yes, H said he wanted a divorce very early on, even before he walked out. Just for background, we actually have been separated once before (in part because of an affair) and had worked things out. I thought we had worked through what had caused the affair and separation, but I am learning the hard way that we did not do enough. 3 years that included the birth of our daughter, 2 major job losses for my H, living for 6 months with H’s parents, the death of 2 of H’s grandparents, and having to go on food stamps for a while took their toll on our relationship.
My daughter’s reflux related sleep issues and my H’s lack of confidence as a parent meant that for almost 3 years I lived on 3 to 4 hours of sleep a night. Normally, I catch my H when he starts to spiral into a depression or some other self destructive behavior. He is good at hiding his feelings, but I am usually even better at reading him. This time I just couldn’t do it. There was a definite void in our relationship at that point. It appears that someone else stepped in to fill it. I was busy with the baby, and H was feeling rejected, hurt, and lonely. It was not ok for him to look to someone else to meet the needs that he was not getting met, but I understand it was him trying to cope. He was not trying to hurt me.
I have from the beginning told him that if we divorced it would be his divorce, not mine. I won't do the work for him and I do not believe our differenced are “irreconcilable.” Given that I am usually the family secretary, he may never get around to it. Guess that gives me as much time to DB as I want, right?
As far as money, the now empty savings account and growing debt do all the talking for me. I make him do the accounting with me and the numbers are very unforgiving. It was always my job before, but I told him when he left that I wouldn't do it alone. I believed it would have opened up the possibility of blaming and bickering even though money is a subject that we never had any (relationship) problems with before.
As far as custody, he already knows that he is losing a great deal of time with her. The reality is sinking in after almost 4 months of this. He is about to have even less time with her when the new restaurant he will be managing opens. He cannot blame me for his schedule, and I keep the focus off of me by not harping on it. He doesn’t need to me to tell him that he could have her every morning before she went to day care if he would come home. He already knows it.
Regarding exposing his affair, I do not believe broadcasting my suspicions would be helpful to my situation. I am fairly certain my H's family and many of our friends already suspect an affair and are trying their best to support both of us anyway. Several people have come to me with concerns or hinted that it is already too late. The reasons he gave for walking out on me sounded lame at best, and false at worst. He told people I didn’t keep the house clean enough, I didn’t let him parent our daughter, I had abandoned him, I was too dependent on him and it smothered him, etc… Even at the beginning just about everyone thought he wasn’t telling the whole story.
As far as my family, they will already have difficulty accepting him back into the family and are too far away to have any influence anyway.
Sorry this ended up being so long, but I wanted to address all of the issues raised. I also find the whole process incredibly helpful. Thank you all! I am going to get some rest and think a bit more about how to handle tomorrow's pumpkin carving family night. I'll post in the morning.
So he's cheated on you before, can't hold a job, cheats on you again, blames it all on you, and you don't believe that telling people the truth about what he's doing will help -- it will only make it worse?
I'm sorry, I can't help you. I would maintain that your husband will begin to value you more, precisely when you value YOURSELF more.
Third, you're right, there is by definition some guess work involved in this kind of situation. Yet, as long as you understand this, sometimes it's all you have to go on. And yet, sometimes certain behaviors by one person do follow proactive strategies used by the other.
I'm sorry, but I don't even know what that means. Since Zen seems to want to continue her current course, I'll bow out of this one anyway.
Yes, I do plan to continue my current course. I am getting very good results and have come a very long way since this whole mess started. I don't feel it is a good time to scrap what is working so well in favor of a new approach. I only have a few minutes before I need to get back to work, so I will just post my plan for tonight.
Tonight my H is coming over to carve pumpkins with our D3 & me. I plan to act relaxed and happy, maybe even just a little flirting. That should not be hard right now since I'm in a good mood today. I want to sit back and enjoy being a family for the evening. Most importantly I will listen, listen, and listen. H seems like he has a lot to say if I give him the chance.
I believe I will hold off on the therapist request until H indicates in some way that he is interested in working on the R. He is just coming back from some pull back. My biggest goal tonight is to make our home someplace my H wants to be at more often and to create a safe place for him to open up to me.
As far as my suspicions about an affair, a confrontation is on the back burner for now. I see no advantage to confronting him at this time. If he tells me, I am ready to hear it, but I would prefer to get my ducks in a row or hear from him that he wants to work together on our R before bringing it up myself. I still have some ‘worst case’ preparations to make. Though I think a blow up is unlikely, I want to make sure I have finished sorting out my legal options if H files papers, starts playing games with money, or decides to fight me on child custody. I think that this is unlikely, but I believe I should protect myself and my daughter while H is getting himself sorted out.
Starsky, you made a few assumptions about my H, me, and my sitch that are incorrect. Since you only have the information I write, I won't hold it against you.
Also, if you feel talking to me is a waste of time if I am not following your advice, it is ok. I am sorry that you feel that way, but I am nearly impossible to offend, so I'm not going to worry about it too much.
I plan to post a bit more about my sitch later tonight, but I am just plain out of lunch break. Thanks for the help, and I will talk to ya’ll later!
