You are all pointing out something quite valuable - (to paraphrase) that issues with boundaries are interwoven with the problems in the relationship, and that it may be unrealistic to snap one’s fingers and be fully functional all of a sudden. It’s a chicken-and-egg thing. I think the question is whether progress is being made or not. When learning (or unlearning) anything, it takes awhile to “get” and is rarely immediate.
Boundaries and communication skills are so important - and seem to be the very things that we are not taught growing up.
I think I said this before, but I will say it again... my reading of Divorce Remedy endorses a balance between internal work on oneself, and external work on your spouse. A healthy balance of the two.
The latter external work being more important when the threat of marital destruction (through divorce or addiction) is near...
If you are dealing with a classic wayward internal work is important, if you are dealing with a vicious alcoholic then its important to confront them and protect yourself as best you can.
You are all pointing out something quite valuable - (to paraphrase) that issues with boundaries are interwoven with the problems in the relationship, and that it may be unrealistic to snap one’s fingers and be fully functional all of a sudden. It’s a chicken-and-egg thing. I think the question is whether progress is being made or not. When learning (or unlearning) anything, it takes awhile to “get” and is rarely immediate.
Boundaries and communication skills are so important - and seem to be the very things that we are not taught growing up.
Absolutely agree with you 100% there, Arnie. I'm reading "Boundaries," by Dr. Henry Cloud and Dr. John Townsend right now.
Setting (and enforcing) boundaries, goal-setting, balancing a checkbook & maintaining a family budget, dealing with adversity with character and grace. THESE are four things we as parents would be wise to teach our children!
This is why, I believe, that the DB tack of working on oneself first is an effective one.
This is not the case when depression, infidelity, or other addictions are involved... The working on oneself thing is for the classic wayward... The text advocates confronting a spouse who has depression, is engaged in infidelity, etc.. That's not working on oneself first...
You are probably right; I'll have to reread about that.
My understanding of infidelity is that there are (at least) two patterns - one being the "sex addict" and the other being the "normal" (!?) affair.
When it comes to clinical depression or addictions, I believe that specialists or programs specifically targeted (like AA, NA, SA, etc) are needed.
Originally Posted By: Frank V
Retro I believe takes a similar position.. Classic waywardness is handled much differently than addiction or other obsessive behaviors.
Actually, RV avoids these entirely at first in the sense that couples with ongoing infidelity or an addict spouse not in recovery are not accepted to the program. The reasoning is that effective work on the relationship cannot be done with either of those two. It does help couples overcome the aftermath (most effectively imo). (Which is why there is much to learn from the stich's here.)
Agreed. How can you even begin to work on yourself unless you acknowledge that poor boundaries and not standing up for yourself in a calm, responsible way are probably part of the problem?
And I'll be there Just as soon as I'm all straightened out Yeah just as soon as I'm perfect.[/i]
I'm not suggesting that a person needs to be perfect before she can begin to set out boundaries, but that she needs to have developed some self-understanding. To go back to one of Coach's early examples, of a woman in an abusive marriage. It's unrealistic to think that she could suddenly set up appropriate boundaries. She doesn't know why she keeps coming back after the abuse, she doesn't realize that she is duplicating her parents' violent example; she doesn't know her own voice or how to communicate. She literally cannot say "Don't ever hit me again" because she hasn't got that self-respect yet. I think a lot of the women who come here are so co-dependent that they have to confront that fact and work on themselves before they can start setting appropriate boundaries.
You either have healthy boundaries, or you don't, and you don't get healthy without having them.
For example, let's look at an "easy one":
1. I will not treat others with disrespect because it is wrong, and because it is wrong, I will not validate or ignore disrespect from others. I will tell them it is wrong, and if that doesn't work, and it is continual, I will remove myself from from the situation where I am being abused.
If you don't have this boundary, chances are you have crappy self-esteem and everything that goes along with not treating yourself and others with basic respect.
How do you fix it without having the boundary to begin with?
M-47,W-40,No kids D-filed 5/27/2010 Piecing - 10/21/2010 -=Soon to be banned=-
