If there were more of it, then much of the pain expressed on this board wouldn't be happening.
I agree 100% on this.
Originally Posted By: ArnieBGood
If this were true, then it would indeed describe a "doormat." I may have mis-read Rogers on this, but the way I see it there is a huge difference between accepting a person as a person and accepting all that they say or do.
Googled it.
Originally Posted By: ArnieBGood
The extent to which I can accept someone else is completely a function of the extent to which I can accept myself. This not only does not imply accepting unacceptable behavior, it actually facilitates maintaining boundaries.
Blond. Late. This paragraph makes my head spin...
I treat people the way I want to be treated. With kindness and compassion...I have learned a lot of lessons in the past 20 months and the number one lesson I have learned is I am worth much more than this.
I accept myself, flaws and all. I accept you, flaws and all. I do not, however accept my H cheating on me and I will no longer accept the "standing" position.
Maybe the first year yes, but what about year 2 or 3 or 4 or 5 like some of the people around here?
When is enough, truly enough? Where is the line in the sand? Forget "unconditional regard" for another, where is the unconditional regard you should be giving yourself?
May All Who Seek To Take My Life Be Put To Shame And Confusion; May All Who Desire My Ruin Be Turned Back In Disgrace. ~Psalm 40:14~
Forget "unconditional regard" for another, where is the unconditional regard you should be giving yourself?
That's precisely where it starts. I can't see you as X (fill in whatever word you prefer) if I don't first see myself that way. If I accept unacceptable behavior from another, then I am not loving myself. If my spouse is adamantly unwilling to work to find mutually acceptable solutions, then what is the point of my continuing in the relationship? Just because I would choose to end the relationship in such a situation has nothing to do with how I would regard her.
I am not certainly advocating having no bottom line - I am saying that there is a lot of territory to cover before getting to that point, and more effective ways of covering that territory.
The problem I have with this is, from my observation, people mistake what "working" and "not working" means. Too often, people stop taking a principled stand if their wayward spouse gets angry, for example. "Oh, she's really angry now -- she said I'd REALLY blown it now, and is threatening DIVORCE, and is really treating me like cr*p now!" for example.
So, does that mean what you did isn't "working"??? Or maybe you needed to enforce the boundary, and stand up to the boorish behavior?
Conversely, I see people staying the course on "giving them space," because it seems to create peace in the household. Well, sure -- you're letting them have their cake, and eat it too!
Hmmmmm.
Starsky
This is the problem with the Ultimatum/Boundary point. It will not jive well with the WS.. but you Do have to follow through... It won't appear to be "working" on the face of it because you are acting on the ultimatum.... But yes, it does work sometimes.. sometimes not...
But NOT following through or making an empty threat definitely does NOT work. lol
Really? Because I followed the books and the advice to the point where I just about lost myself...
In a nutshell, I lost my H, my house, my car, my oldest son, my self-esteem, my self-worth, my cat ran away last month & I can't get a dime from the man to support the son I do have, please tell me your effective ways of covering that mess.
You know my way? I grew up. I faced the fear of doing it on my own instead of hiding behind "standing" and an MLC label, which IMO gets tossed around here like rice at a wedding.
Sometimes, the spouse just doesn't love you anymore.
Accept it, forgive and move on.
I will do it and I will do it on my own with His help.
Originally Posted By: ArnieBGood
Just because I would choose to end the relationship in such a situation has nothing to do with how I would regard her.
Count your blessings that I am going to school to be a Pastor, otherwise I would tell you exactly how I regard my spouse.
(And yes, I ask for forgiveness for those thoughts as well.)
May All Who Seek To Take My Life Be Put To Shame And Confusion; May All Who Desire My Ruin Be Turned Back In Disgrace. ~Psalm 40:14~
I am not certainly advocating having no bottom line - I am saying that there is a lot of territory to cover before getting to that point, and more effective ways of covering that territory.
The question Arnie is not "are you advocating no bottom line". The question is what do you advocate an abandoned/betrayed/left behind spouse doing when a boundary is rejected, bypassed, transgressed, disrespected, ignored... Or in some way disregarded.
What do you advocate the spouse to do when the ultimatum is challenged outright?
According to the text the answer is "follow through".
You avoid the question by simply saying "there is a lot of territory to cover before getting to that point. Saying that isn't an answer. The question isn't how much territory there is to cover before an ultimatum is laid down.
The question is... do you or do you not advocate following through on a boundary/ultimatum once set?
