Its right in the index... you guys are regulars and shouldn't need me to do your research for you, but here's direct quotations from the text :
pp 226 of Divorce Remedy
If you are convinced that nothing in your marriage will change unless and until your spouse is confronted with hard evidence about his/her behavior, then you might consider purchasing a software product that takes "snapshots" of online activity for review later.
There are other passages in the infidelity and depression sections that make it quite clear MWD is indeed advocating you to speak directly with your spouse in order to change things in the marriage for the better.
There are certainly places as well where she advocate making changes in yourself as well. The result, is a balance between working with your spouse to improve the situation, and changing yourself as well.
On pp 230 she also outlines setting boundaries with a definite consequence and follow through if the boundaries are rejected.
I have yet to see a passage in DR anywhere that has MWD advocating setting a boundary without a consequence. In fact she makes it abundantly clear that you must be prepared to follow through on the boundary and its consequences.
For those who don't have the DR text handy I will quote once again :
Once a person is obsessed or addicted to a particular behavior, s/he won't make the decision to change unless they have suffered some losses. They need to realize that their behavior is causing serious problems for them.
Only then will they be willing to look inward.
The passage above is in the context of filing for divorce as an attempt to "shake things up", but its pretty obvious that there are other less drastic actions one can take to get your spouse's attention.
But these acts are not by any means inward looking changes of the self, they are active, direct, and powerful triggering events to turn your spouse around - by addressing them directly. This is certainly not changing ones' marriage simply by changing one's self. This is a direct involvement in changing your spouse's lifestyle in order to effect change in the marriage.
Don't act so high and mighty, Frank. If I had simply asked you to tell where it was....then that would have ticked you, so I was trying to put it "nicely". Sometime, we have to ask for clearification for the sake of others,or have you forgotten what it's like to be a newcomer.....you old vet, you.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Boundary setting (you may need to set boundaries, but you will be more effective by setting the boundaries by changing your own behavior.)
In light if this from the text itself :
pp 231 of DR
Once a person is obsessed or addicted to a particular behavior, s/he won't make the decision to change unless they have suffered some losses. They need to realize that their behavior is causing serious problems for them.
Only then will they be willing to look inward.
These are outright contradicting one another. The first is saying changing yourself is most effective in improving the marriage.
The second passage makes it quite clear that where there is "obsess[ive] or addict[ive]" behavior involved they "won't make the decision to change unless they have "suffered some losses."
Changing yourself in the case of addictive or obsessive behavior won't in this case make much difference.. according to the text.. this is an outright contradiction to what's been posted in this forum which I quoted above.
In my reading of the text a balance of consequence-rich boundary setting and sincerely looking inward to change oneself affects a better marriage. In the case where there is no obsessive or addictive activity then simply changing oneself may do the trick.
But according to the DR text once an addition or obsessive activity have gotten hold of your wayward spouse's senses you are pretty much left with no choice but to take some active measures to shake up what they are doing to ruin the marriage. If you don't shake their life up and bring some loses to their doorstep then they according to this DR text won't bat a single eyelash over it.
Clearly identifying if obsessive behaviour (alcoholism, depression, drugs, infidelity, etc) is in play.
If there is obsessive or addictive activity taking place, a different strategy according to the text is in order here.
I think it is important that this be made clear when liberal paraphrases of "working on you" etc are offered up.
According to the text, working on you when your spouse is binge drinking or gambling the household savings away isn't going to make much of a dent.
Don't act so high and mighty, Frank. If I had simply asked you to tell where it was....then that would have ticked you, so I was trying to put it "nicely". Sometime, we have to ask for clearification for the sake of others,or have you forgotten what it's like to be a newcomer.....you old vet, you.
I am not getting high and mighty. I was actually being considerate. I felt that some here may take offence at me quoting from a text that most regulars here most likley own and can look up themselves.
I said "Its right in the index... you guys are regulars and shouldn't need me to do your research for you, but here's direct quotations from the text" to avoid insulting anyone. I am giving regulars here credit at being able to do this on their own.
Some people don't like having a text they own and have read many times over quoted to them.
It wasn't a slam, it was was me giving regulars credit. I am not talking down to anyone. I am merely indicating there is an inconsistency here...
I am just quoting the text.. I am finding the paraphrases used on this forum don't cover the addictive or obsessive stuff in light of the text.. I see a lot of work on you stuff here, and according to the text this isn't going to help much.
Despite this, I find that advice offered up anyhow.. I think we may be misinforming some people...
DB IS NOT 'ABOUT' the following or any one technique
Boundary setting (you may need to set boundaries, but you will be more effective by setting the boundaries by changing yoru own behavior.)
Blaming your spouse If you're blaming your spouse, you are not DBing. Your spouse may be to blame, but you move forward by changing your own behavior.
'Manning Up'; Stopping 'Cake-Eating', etc. When we tell our stories on the board, we are only telling one side. Our friends on the board often get 'on our sides' and against our spouses....just like in 'real life'. It's nice and supportive......but that isn't usually the advice to follow. Someone may tell us to stop our spouse's 'cake eating' when they don't know we had/have poor behaviors that contributed to our spouse's poor behavior. Folks who as probing questions about our own part in this, lead us to take better actions.
I am still trying to understand this. If your spouse violates a boundary after you set the boundary... what then?
I am still trying to understand this. If your spouse violates a boundary after you set the boundary... what then?
Starsky
According to the text, a boundary is an ultimatum and you need to be prepared to follow through with it. Making "empty threats" is pointless. Again, this is according to the DR text.
This follows that whatever the consequences are of the ultimatum/boundary you carry them out.
It further follows that if there are no consequences to your "boundary" then you are simply making an "empty threat". The text says quite clearly that this is not advisable.
