A new Start to a bad ending.

[robx]

just posting what steve mcqueen placed in quotes in another thread, just because it's easier to read this way:

From a WAW's perspective....
"..About a year ago, I became addicted to chatting online, especially with strangers, particularly men. It got to the point that I opened a secret Facebook account, started playing games online, and started chatting with people I was “meeting” thru the games. Conversation would turn to my marriage, and how I felt I wasn’t getting the attention I wanted/deserved from my husband.

I made many of these friends. Things escalated. Suddenly I had all these secret “friends” in my life. The conversation was not always wholesome, in fact, sometimes it was quite damning. In some cases I became emotionally involved. I started chatting with some of them on Skype. Sometimes video chat was used. I said nasty things about my husband that weren’t true, but I liked all the attention I was getting. I did nasty things that I can’t bare to put into words on a public forum.

My husband became suspicious. Asked who I was staying up late chatting with on Skype. I lied and said I was talking to my sister. He did some detective work and discovered the truth. Evidently for some weeks he was monitoring my online socializing without my knowing. Like I said, the things I said and did on there were damning. I had no idea he knew anything was going on.

Two weeks ago, when I came home from work, he confronted me in the driveway. He had already moved his things out. The only thing he said to me was “You can’t do this and be with me. I’m leaving. You’ll be served in a few days. And served I was. During the next few days, I left desperate voicemails, asking him to go to therapy, telling him I loved him, etc.

We have had one face to face conversation sine he left. He didn’t want to be alone with me, so he asked my sister to supervise. During that conversation, at the advice of my therapist, I said almost nothing. I just listened. He only wanted to speak about divorce and what he wanted and did not want in the divorce. I only said, that I needed time to think about it, and I hope we could reconcile and be stronger than ever. He says it’s not an option. I did say I was sorry, which he doesn’t believe.

I would do anything to get him back."

So what do you think worked here?
Was it a tactic?
Or was it being so real with his wife,
to let her know that it was over, that it was his decision and not giving her any doubt about what he wanted.

What steve posted could pretty much be one of the best things you will ever read on this site.

[robx]

It is having an effect already. I'll give it some time.

not "some" time,
all the time you have,
this works when it's for real, not a tactic.

[ArnieBGood]

If I understand the sitch correctly, there are no children, hence no reason to ever talk to her again. If that is indeed what is "real" for you. OTOH, if it is not real for you, then it is just a tactic, albeit one that might get closer to what what is truly wanted - if there 100% clarity that it is indeed over.

There are in fact ways of communicating that are even more effective at conveying intent and clarity of purpose than being "dark" or the kind of blameful responses that I have seen suggested on the site.

In other words, if at some point you do talk to her again in the future, then regardless of your intent or the purpose of the conversation, it is helpful to have ways of communicating that facilitate your desired goals.

From a WAW's perspective….

Obviously every circumstance is somewhat different; however, in similar situations of which I am aware, the husband was not exactly an innocent party in what happened in the marriage. Based on just the little information, I believe that is also the case in this example. The unfaithful wife may have learned her lesson in that, but the husband did not, imo, and is likely to find himself in exactly the same situation with a future relationship. So in that sense, I do not believe that the approach "worked."

[Atossup]

Hi arnie,
No kids are involved but we have a house that she moved out of. The biggest challenge is we are going to Co. The Co suggests that since she is so conflicted right now and has too much going on (yes he said OM must be foregotten)but she rally cares about me (said she cried) but also has trenendus guilt. He says that I should take her calls if I am emotionally stable at the time and can keep R talk out of it. Yes w and I have discussed her losing connection to me and I know how I help facilitate that.

!st 2 weeks we did not talk. 3rd week she called me multiple times crying about the fact that she hurt me and felt terrible. 4

4th week Co tells me she isstill involved with OM so I address it. She tells me she is only seeing him so the guy will let her 20yo S and his friends have a bachloer party at his house. That he offered weeks ago and S has pressured her not to break up yet. She says no sex. But yet this eekend she comes back and he takes her out for her b-day!

As luck would have it wells fargo called and needs more stuff from us and after a couple emails we had to talk. It was positve, kept to the house stuff but than she asked me if we could talk after the Co?
She told me I could tell him about the sitch her S has put her in. She is seeing him on Thurs so I told her she could do it. This house mess she left me is killing me and screws up my plan for keeping the light off.

[ArnieBGood]

So even though the Co agrees that the A needs to end, somehow s/he feels that there can be progress in the relationship if W chooses to continue contact with OM. I'm wondering if the Co has been asked about that.

She tells me she is only seeing him so the guy will let her 20yo S and his friends have a bachloer party at his house.

Somehow you feel you have no choice but to accept this explanation. And S has no other alternative for the party.

She is seeing him on Thurs so I told her she could do it.

And there’s a reason why this was agreed to.

[Atossup]

Co is going to address it with her. I don't accept the explanation at all . I told her to tell her S to get over it! But I can do nothing else but stay away and let the BS play out. Which it will. Co said it won't last, was an abomination. He said she needs to grow up. She has not seen him for a couple weeeks.

She has not filed. Has been very helpful with the house stuff. Co said she disconnected from me she thinks almost a year ago and it will take some time to gain her feelings. He also feels that if I go completely dark that her feelings for me will only lesson instead of build with positive interactions. Basically be nice, listen to her actively and let OG fizzle.

On here I get differnt advice. 10 years ago folks out here did not advocate the real tough approach. The last time this W and I had issues I did the wait and see approach and was patient and understanding and she came back. I know her and that works with her but I want her to respect our marriage also!!

[ArnieBGood]

Co is going to address it with her. I don't accept the explanation at all .

So even though you don't accept it, you feel you have no choice but to accept her continuing to see the OM.

But I can do nothing else but stay away and let the BS play out.

And you have an idea of what this looks like.

Co said it won't last, was an abomination. He said she needs to grow up.

So he has reason for believing that it will somehow end of its own accord.

He also feels that if I go completely dark that her feelings for me will only lesson instead of build with positive interactions. Basically be nice, listen to her actively and let OG fizzle.

And you agree with that.

10 years ago folks out here did not advocate the real tough approach.

Maybe you are under the impression that the only alternatives are "tough" and "nice."

The last time this W and I had issues I did the wait and see approach and was patient and understanding and she came back. I know her and that works with her but I want her to respect our marriage also!!

Perhaps part of you is recognizing that the W&S/nice guy approach has not led to the kind of respect you need.

[robx]

If I understand the sitch correctly, there are no children, hence no reason to ever talk to her again. If that is indeed what is "real" for you. OTOH, if it is not real for you, then it is just a tactic, albeit one that might get closer to what what is truly wanted - if there 100% clarity that it is indeed over.

There are in fact ways of communicating that are even more effective at conveying intent and clarity of purpose than being "dark" or the kind of blameful responses that I have seen suggested on the site.

In other words, if at some point you do talk to her again in the future, then regardless of your intent or the purpose of the conversation, it is helpful to have ways of communicating that facilitate your desired goals.

From a WAW's perspective….

Obviously every circumstance is somewhat different; however, in similar situations of which I am aware, the husband was not exactly an innocent party in what happened in the marriage. Based on just the little information, I believe that is also the case in this example. The unfaithful wife may have learned her lesson in that, but the husband did not, imo, and is likely to find himself in exactly the same situation with a future relationship. So in that sense, I do not believe that the approach "worked."

I read this and I don't understand the point you are making. I hope you're not trying to blame ATU for his wife's affair? I believe she's old enough to accept responsibility for her actions, ie. having the affair. ATU needs to be tough, being the nice guy has gotten him nowhere in the situation, it has only continued to enable his wife's action. The example quoted is a real quote taken from a woman who was having an affair, recounting her experience including her husband's response to what she was doing which is NOT the typical response (ie. most men turn into scared little children afraid to lose their wive's and it leads them to languishing helplessly on these boards for months, if not years). People will say things like "every situation is different" and yet those same people will be the one's exhibiting "nice guy"/doormat behaviors and continue to allow a spouse to walk all over them, thinking that if they're nice enough, patient enough, allow enough time to pass, their spouse's affair(s) will eventually end and they will want to return home to their left behind spouse. If you believe this, I want you to comb this forums and find me one example of that where it worked. Find me one where it really worked, where the cheating spouse came home, apologized, fell head over heels in love with the spouse they cheated on, came home and made everything better.

.....

Let me assist you in your search....You won't find it.

Waiting and being patient with a spouse who is cheating on you NEVER WORKS.

There is a method that DOES WORK more times than it fails.
It's a tough response, it's NO BS, NO WAITING response.
It involves the betrayed spouse to take action in their own situation and to make a decision about their lives and take an active role in leading their lives in the direction they want to go in. It's a method where you let go of the people that don't value you or the relationship they have with you. You don't WAIT for a cheating spouse to finish their affair and come back home - that is the worst advice I have ever heard and it doesn't work. Whenever you convey the message that you're ok being option #2, you're ok with being a backup plan if the intended plan doesn't work out (ie. the affair), you will ALWAYS be option #2 in your spouse's eyes, and I can guarantee you that just allows another affair to happen. Want proof of that? Go through the forums and find examples where a cheating spouse has gone through multiple affair partners instead of coming back home to the LBS.

Those who question the tough response to a cheating spouse and question whether there really is a one size fits all approach are just too afraid to do what works, and would rather continue doing what doesn't work.

In a marriage where one of the spouses is having an affair, husband or wife, the responsibility of those actions, lies with them, plain and simple. When you can rationalize someone's poor decisions and blame yourself for them instead of allowing that person to take responsibility for those actions, you're going down the wrong path.

If I tell you to throw a brick through your neighbor's house and you do it, are you going to blame me for that action or do you take responsibility for that action because you already knew it was the wrong thing to do? Blaming someone else for your irresponsible actions is what children do.

It's time to be an adult about these things.

[ArnieBGood]

Wow - that really struck a nerve.

I don't understand the point you are making.

Perhaps you would be open, then, to hearing what was meant.

Waiting and being patient with a spouse who is cheating on you NEVER WORKS.

You might be right about that. And if you read Chapter 7 of DR, esp. pp. 215-218, MWD evidently feels that it does sometimes work. I was under the impression that this forum was based on the principles and ideas put forth by her in DB/DR, etc. I might be mistaken about that, however.

There is a method that DOES WORK more times than it fails.

Again, please explain what is meant by "work." In the quote the marriage was broken without any chance of healing - and while the wife may have learned something, the husband certainly didn't.

Those who question the tough response to a cheating spouse and question whether there really is a one size fits all approach are just too afraid to do what works, and would rather continue doing what doesn't work.

So you are convinced that no other approach will lead to a fulfilling and happy relationship.

In a marriage where one of the spouses is having an affair, husband or wife, the responsibility of those actions, lies with them, plain and simple.

This is certainly true - that is their choice, and nobody has 'made' them be unfaithful. Perhaps you also believe that the unfaithful spouse is the only one who has contributed to the breakdown of the relationship.

I certainly agree that being a doormat is not an effective approach. Perhaps you are under the impression that it is the only alternative to the "tough response."

[Pensacolabroken]

Robx method is the one I am using now.. the doormat waiting and hoping only made her lie more... made me feel more paranoid and gave me false hope.

I told my WAW this morning to get out.. before she left for work.. I know I destroyed her game plan.. and I am finding out she didnt have a game plan.. she only had the belief that she knows me and I wont change.. lol guess she is having a real fun morning huh?