Wife is cheating, am sad but confused?

[Savemymarr]

Hey GK, would agree with Hutch's partner there. u assume that gathering intel = looking for a D. i beg to differ. there is one thing to gather info obsessively and another to corroborate that something is indeed going on. exposing does not = pursuing D. read Tupy and Harley. we can agree to disagree.

moreover detaching while seemingly signing off on A would be another extreme. there can be an infinite number of approaches. do not believe that the choices have to be so stark.

and TH is right also. if u know ur W is having A w/ OM and he is married/engaged then does not that person have a right to know? besides the sig other of the OM is often your biggest ally. u can squash the A right there. look at some of the other threads and u will see that that is often the case.

do not believe in all or none of: either detach or spy w/ D in mind.

[Grocerykartman]

Starsky-

I very respectfully disagree. Granted, the only thing I'm basing it on is personal experience AND the fact that DBing tells you not to. But I never understood why DB tells you not to for a long time, so I ignored it and I spied a lot myself. Here's why I think it backfires...because you start to only see your WAW spouse as someone you have to check up on. You end up finding things out that you may absolutely not be able to forget, forgive, tolerate, etc. It crippled my ability to think clearly really, because all the time I spent spying and then going crazy over what I found out could have been better spent improving me. In retrospect, what I should have done is simply let her go, knowing full well that things were going to happen with OM that I would not like, approve of, could tolerate, etc. I should have spent that time worrying about ME and less about what she was doing, because all it did was lessen my opinion of her everyday instead of letting me detach and also find healthy ways to miss her. Instead, all I found were angry and jealous ways to miss her, which just pushed her away more.

I'm not saying it's easy, probably the hardest thing one can do really, but I really think you have to set the other person free as well as yourself. If you both really miss each other enough, you'll find the common ground to make it work again. As it stands though with people who have an OM or OW, they're already out the door and need to experience what it's really like without their spouse.

HIL knows his WAW is up to no good here, so what more evidence does he need unless he is going to do something punishing with it? At this point, all one is doing by spying is allowing themself to have their head messed with by what they find. Plus, if all of a person's time is spent obsessing over spying, what time does that leave for improving themselves? Spying really isn't detaching, it just enables you to find out more things you may not be able to handle very well. Then, if you handle them wrong, that will put more pressure on your WAS to do the right thing, which they will likely run away from since they are already not fazed at all with the sneaking around they are doing.

Timeheals, I would say that it's the right thing to do if that person you are telling is someone you know very well. At this point, though, HIL does not know OM's fiancee and it is causing him to get further involved with the A, not more detached from it. Case in point, there were a couple of married scumballs who were making advances towards my XW during our separation, telling her how much they liked her, one of them has made repeated sexual advances, etc. Now, I could easily facebook message either of their wives, as I was once at a point I did think that would be a good idea. But then I stopped and thought: "there are kids involved with both of these married guys...it's not your job to be the one to possibly break up families. It's none of your business." This, despite the fact that I would internally love to see these two knuckleheads get what's coming to them. But I think it's the wrong thing to do.

Mostly though, the right thing for HIL is to simply do what's right for him and improve himself....that's the best way he'll seem attractive enough for his wife to second-guess her involvement with OM. If he tells the fiancee, that's just getting further into the web of the game she and OM are playing.
I don't think it's about the easy or hard thing to do, it's more about minding your own business and not stooping into the game.

[Savemymarr]

agree with u wholeheartedly GK that sometimes spying can lead u to obsess. u should try to improve yourself and DB w/ the 180s, etc.

but there is potentially some value to exposure which i know from my experience. when i involved the OMW it was like lighting a fire under the proverbial rear ends of my W and the OM. my W was in fear and still is of OMW and OM decided (hopefully it stays that way) to R w/ OMW. W actually apologized at one point for bringing OMW into our lives which made laugh on the inside. in typical WAS-fashion, my W probably felt OM could do no wrong so all pressure to end A had to have come from OMW.

if u obtain incontrovertible proof that ur WAS is engaged in EA/PA then u have to ask yourself if exposure is way to go, bc do not agree that exposure = tempting fate necessarily. sometimes u need to raise the bottom for ur WAS and the OP. they have to realize what they are doing is wrong and that there are consequences to their behavior. do not feel that remaining idly by while your WAS is involved w/ OP hoping that they'll finally notice changes in u is an active enough approach. fighting for yours does not mean being vindictive and mean. overall my approach with my W did not veer negatively at all but for one night where i gave her some of the sordid details that had been shared with me like the name of the motel where she had her trysts. i have taken the high ground bc by not badgering or cajoling. when u do that, although it might seem like it feels good to express yourself and ur hurt to this person who has hurt you but in the end u do more harm than good. it has the opposite intended affect.

the picnic and the castle on blgp's thread was awesome too.

i am not as strident as some of the others on this forum in the past and try to take a more conciliatory approach prefering to discuss and consider the merits of both sides, i.e., exposure vs strict detachment w/ no exposure. it is not to say though that exposure has no role whatsoever.

[Starsky309]

Not much to add here, except that if my telling the truth to the OP's spouse leads to them breaking up, it wasn't ME who broke them up. It was the AFFAIR.

It's the OP's spouse's choice as to what they do with the information. I just think they should have a right to know, that's all.

Starsky

M 38
W 37
S 9
D 7

[HopelessInLove]

Last night spent time with kids at our house and then put them to bed. I spoke very little to W. I did something dumb. She looked very tense and sore. She has also been coughing and not feeling good, maybe stress or coming down with cold. I not thinking (I am still in love with her and don't want her to hurt) went over to her and started to rub her shoulders. After about 30 seconds I froze and she asked me to stop. I froze because of realizing I was not detaching myself. I just am really not in the true detachment frame of mind.

Anyway after that W asked if tonight I would be sticking around after dropping off D from dance. I said I would like that and thank you for offering.

I have been thinking if W continues to say I need to be a man and act like one, should I grow some cowboys and move back into the house and tell her that I will be staying now.???

[Truegritter]

so I ignored it and I spied a lot myself. Here's why I think it backfires...because you start to only see your WAW spouse as someone you have to check up on. You end up finding things out that you may absolutely not be able to forget, forgive, tolerate, etc. It crippled my ability to think clearly really, because all the time I spent spying and then going crazy over what I found out could have been better spent improving me.

This ^^^^^^^ is why

You don't snoop.

You WILL do it. Believe me.

It will be painful. You will do it till you stop or go crazy.

Then you are back to the two choices GK described.

Snooping doesn't lead to divorce it leads to the pain that makes you want punish and give up.

It will make you angrier and make you feel more like a

LEFT BEHIND SPOUSE

GK speaks from experience and that is what we base our advice on. That and the advice of others who lived it too.

What does this information you gather do for YOU?

For your goals?

[Starsky309]

GK speaks from experience and that is what we base our advice on.

But it didn't work for him??? Unless I read it wrong.

Different strokes, I guess. Maybe I'm not as emotional as other people, or maybe it's because I haven't had to go thru it. But I'd just rather know the truth, that's all I was saying.

Peace,

Starsky

M 38
W 37
S 8
D 7

[HopelessInLove]

My goal of the whole intel has been 3 fold, to help boost my own confidence, to find out what the OM is doing for W, and for my own protection.

Before knowing of my W A, I had this twisted veiw of mysef and was very angry toward myself. How could I have done all of this myself, what did I do to her, why did I want affection from W so much? Looking at some of my questions has focused my worries on myself. W would say to me all the typical, you are not to blame for all of this, I know I did things to to hurt you. She would rattle off the things I was doing wrong, and then would say nothing specifically how she affected the M. Now I know what she did or is doing to ruin our M. Yes, I did not spend as much time with her, but when trying she would make many excuses why she could not. She never wanted to show affection toward me. All of this I can see now because of her A and mental fantsy world. Helping me to realize I am not 95% at fault like W has made me feel.

I know that the OM has provided her a large net of emotional support, a dream land to escape to (her reality is so busy and she is a perfectionist), and secrecy. OM is someone she is finding attractive. This will help me to work on the areas which I know that have fallen by the wayside since starting my own business (which because of the economy and failing M I have decided to close). Being attractive, well I have been working out regularly, though I am not gaining weight or much visible muscle since not being able to eat (stress induced eating disorder as my doctor has stated). Looks will change in time much like mood and well-being, I know.

Lastly, my wife has always had a low-level of anger and holds grudges. I typically am the brunt of her anger. I know that I should have let her talk and never try to fix but knowing now is too late. I feared that she would file a D with a L who has a nastly reputation. This specific L was through a D. Her H was having an A and left this L after H become a L himslef to be with OW (I don't think that R ever materialized). This L will go after every angle. I just want to protect myself and get what I can if it comes to that. I fear this could get very nasty if it goes to that point.

I do want to reconcile with W. I know that it could take a long time. But the other night it sounded like the OM was trying to distance himself from W. I will soon be dropping the intel. I do fear that I could go insane if I continue to listen. I have maybe everything I need.

My overall goals have been to 1) stay relaxed, I get very uptight around wife (maybe last several years, could it have been I sensed something happening to her and never could figure it out- EA). 2) be that guy the nice one, confident one, having goals and aspirations. 3) Be a great dad. 4) Learn everyday especially from mistakes.

Well, it is good to just get things off chest sometimes and a small weigth has been lifted. Thanks for listening and will continue to type. It is definitely calming and helps for clarity. Keep the advise and opinions coming. I am humbled by the support and welcome the knowledge.

[Grocerykartman]

HIL,

Of your 3 reasons for doing this,let me ask you this:

To boost your confidence, how is it boosting your confidence? Do you actually feel better about anything since you've been spying? Do you feel better about yourself? If so, may I ask how?

To know what OM is doing for your wife, ask yourself WHY do you want to know? What will you do or are you doing with this information?

Your 3rd reason, to protect yourself, is the best one to actually spy, and I can't really argue with that if she's seriously ready to file and you have to address her. But if you are to this point, and maybe I forgot what you have already posted, why haven't you contacted your own L already with this info? Don't wait for her to get a leg up on you, you already sound apprehensive of the one potential L she could hire. If you feel the need to protect yourself, don't go half heartedly...do that in style.

Just an observation too, if you prioritize being a great dad #1 instead of 3, the I think #1, #2 and #4 will fall into place much more easily for you. I know you probably just listed those off in no particualr order, but think of #3 as your #1. ALWAYS! Your kids are the best people you have in your life to bring out your true happiness and confidence. Love them like you never have before.

[HopelessInLove]

GK,
Yes, Kids are definately my main focus, priority #1. Listed as they came to mind. But staying relaxed must be a very high goal otherwise I would not be able to focus on anything else.

I was an absolute mess when I first found out W LMBNILWM. She wound act as though she had very little to do with our R/M falling apart. I had no confidence thinking I let the woman I loved down. Let say that you had a test, studied for the test and failed, would that not hurt? Then you find out that there would be a test next week on the same material, and you study even harder. This time you are confident you know the information. You take the test and get the score back and it was worse than last week. Would that not destroy your confidence? No matter what you did the results were poor. Then you find out that the teacher was manipulating both test questions somehow just to make your answers wrong. So you found out that maybe you were not perfect but your answers were right for the questions. My W was making me beleive I was at fault not her. But I know now and am confident that I did not single-handedly creat this hole in our marriage. She changed the questions to make my look like I failed. I know now W was changing the questions or rules as it applied to our R/M.

No, I am not saying that I feel great and am over-confident about that, great my W is having A! What I am saying is that I am not the horses behind or the door mat, I know more about the problems. As far as knowing what the OM is doing for W, well if by the grace of God I have a chance with my W wanting to reconcile then I will know my own flaws. I can work on them and be that better man. If we do end up D then I will better understand what needs to be done to help in future R.

Lastly, I called two L and they were about a 3-4 week wait to get in to see them. I did make an appointment and will see them next week. So, I will in a way have style and see a L, no half heartedly. Some how I don't see that as style but will run with it at this point. W will not be able to see either of these L because of conflict of interest. So mission accomplished.

I did see W tonight breifly. Had to drop off D after dance class. W asked yesterday if I was going to stay for dinner tonight and told her maybe. I thought I really don't because the way she has been so angry with me, and I felt that she would think she needs to take care of me. She has in the past said how I expect her to take care of me (all in her head). But I also had a viewing of a family friend to go to. So, I declined dinner. Then, W started in on her going to see a friend tomorrow night when I had the kids. Her statement was that I am always asking her where she is off to and wondering where she is at. At this point I really don't care, and I did not in the past grill her on where she was going. Her final comment was because I have nothing to hide. I just bit my lip (yes, the A you are hiding, and no I will not tell you I am going to see a L- the one you wanted), told her to have a good time, and that I did not have a problem with her going places in the past. Her statement was "I don't want to argue with you." I walked away. My smart remarks were at a bear minimum. Still trying to detach.