A message from Michele Weiner-Davis

[25yearsmlc]

Every situation is different.
Clearly true Antlers and I'm glad you are the one to say it. Some on here pretty much take a one size fits all approach and shove it onto others. I didn't know how long it took you to do it after finding out. That' must have been tough and I do believe you felt it was a last ditch effort to save things. But in your case you also didn't "go public". Off the top of my head, I cannot think of when that approach would be good for anyone, esp if there are kids.
I wouldn't recommend anyone expose their spouses affair in order to "shame" them. I think most people expose their spouses affair because they (the victim) need support.

I don't have a "study" on this but my gut is saying it's a toss up. A LOT of lbs-ers feel justified in punishing and call it "consequences". My DB coach reminded me that it's not a spouses' job to teach consequences, b/c Life will do that. And then the whole 'parental tone" of disapproval that turns pretty much everyone off...(remember, we're supposed to do what works, even if it feels the opposite of what we want to do.) Plus, let's admit it. A LOT of people tell LBSers to "expose" and then in the next paragraph will show their anger. They'll say "the cheater deserves/caused MY pain and therefore...blah blah blah" and my take on it, is vindictiveness is not attractive. They DO intend to punish. (Obviously, not all, but imo, many).

The pain is so deep. It is such a gross violation of trust, committed by someone who vowed to spend their life with you and be faithful to you, that once it happens...you need to tell people you are close to and trust, so they can be supportive of you.

THIS is totally understandable and not what I'm concerned about when people "expose". It's the telling employers, teachers, neighbors, etc only to force them to condemn or take sides. I know it surely embarasses and humiliates but I think most LBSers at the time, in their pain, fail to realize it's not just unattractive to their spouses, but to uncomfortable 3rd parties who maybe never wanted or needed this info and now feel awkwardaround the lbs-er as much as the WAS (or more so--ironic but true).

I kept it to myself. I worked on me, I addressed my shortcomings, and I succeeded. I remember vividly all of the times that she got off work at 5 pm, and wouldn't come home until 8, 8:30, or 9 pm at night. This was when she was pulling away. I would question her. She would lie.-- I questioned her. She lied. I questioned her further and she went berserk! I remember her telling me that it "sickened and disgusted" her for me to touch her anymore. I had no control at all over her or what she did.
A key insight.

I needed the support of my family and close friends. So, after such a long time, and after much water had gone under the bridge...I told...my family and close friends, because I needed their support. It was after the mediation.
She still won't accept any responsibility to this day.

Probably won't publicly accept any- but who knows what she feels inside? Did she marry the guy and live happily ever after?

Antlers, thank you again! Yes, my exposure came from a place of trying to save my M. I actually turned over every letter to my L. I'm confident that if this somehow comes up in court, the judge/mediator will see this is what I was doing. Thank you for your support. I will always question if what I did was the right thing, until the day he comes back to me. But I also know, I had to do what felt right and made sense at the time.

If he never comes back to you, it does not make what you did wrong. If a tactic does not work, but came from the right place, then you made a tactical error, not a moral one. If you got in his face "teaching him a lesson" or "giving him what he deserves" then I'd say you screwed up big time. It sounds as if that is not what happened but I'm not clear on who you informed of this or who got exposed, etc. And I don't think one size fits all, except if you act in anger, even justified anger, it's a dangerous act that rarely pays off. Guess that's my big point. Dig deep and know why you are doing what you are doing. Heck, if we all did that IN our marriages, many would not be here in the first place.

The rest of your life is yours. You're in charge of your life and your happiness and if you take responsibility for that, (b/c no one else will) then you'll eventually heal, move forward, and yes, be happy. Believe you deserve it, become the woman you want to become, and leave the results up to God. You might be surprised at how well things go in your life. Our Happiness really is in our control, ultimately. Good luck,
j

[lovehurts]

TY 25! I agree 100% - this is up to me! I do take accountability for the problems in our marriage. He was justified in feeling hurt and angry. I pulled away from him.

I exposed to ppl I thought would help me fight for our M but I was very wrong about who would help. Marriage friendly people were not as abundant as I thought. I've had 0 angry exchanges with him and am proud of that. I check myself to make sure I'm not making decisions out of anger or revenge frequently. I've had to stop myself a few times but again- I have to protect myself and my S!

I'm GALing - need to read more I know. But emotionally I feel like I'm on the right path!

Thanks again!

[25yearsmlc]

LH,

you sound good. Sorry you didn't find abundant supplies of pro-m people. Most don't want to see a div happen, but they hesitate to judge another person's marriage or take sides. Most will feel it's inappropriate since they don't really know "all the facts" and saying someone had an affair will sound pretty one sided if that's all they get, and most troubled couples don't hand out much more info, soooo it is not easy for those "witnesses". I did see a male neighbor once with a "Guest" for lunch whom I knew the wife felt threatened by. He saw me see him. He approached me and boldly asked for marriage advice and I finally said, "I saw what I saw and won't lie to protect you so tell your w within 48 hours or I'll have to." He did.
This was decades ago and she was a friend of mine. Would I do the same thing now? Probably but it would be much harder for me. NOt so black and white. There were no children, so maybe that's why it seemed clear to me then.
And it is VERY easy for the LBSer to look vindictive if they're involving a 3rd party. They often are.

Here, NOW, What matters is you GAL, moving forward, and protecting your son, as you are. And as for checking yourself inwardly for motive, good for you. It's an insight many never gain or distinguish between. What's even tougher is knowing where that fine line is, between enabling bad behavior, or punishing a spouse, or allowing them to cake eat, or being a doormat, OR learning detachment. Those lines get very blurry.

Be careful and honest with yourself, and you'll have no regrets. If you made a mistake or make another, learn from it and let it go. You are human after all. I think it's huge that you and h have not had any angry words together. Treat him as politely as possible (NOT being a doormat, just polite and calm) and contrast those negative images he's using to justify leaving you, with the "warm fun you" who is MOVING ON AND GAL and whom he is probably losing. Don't fear that he'll think if he's lost you, that's he's off the hook or won't regret it. If anything, the first minute he thinks he's really losing you will be the first time he begins to second guess his choices. Let him. How else can he choose to wonder, let alone fight to get his life back

This is his 2nd m. Why'd his first m end? And how are the older kids dealing with you now? Hope they learn good life lessons from you
(( hugs ))

[lovehurts]

25, I would love to hear what you think of my new thread I've started!

Thank you SO much for your words. I have made mistakes, I know I'll make more, but I am really truly doing well!

It's funny you say that he will see what he's lost when he sees the warm fun me.
I think last night might have hit him harder than he expected. When I gave him the boundaries letter, August 12, I immediately started the protection phase and didn't let him enter the house (with the exception of twice when I wasn't home, which left me feeling VERY violated so I put things outside for him from that point on) I haven't spoken directly to him, first via third party, next via shared family website. I also had him drop S off at next door neighbors. I dropped the 3rd party when I felt I no longer needed that buffer. I let him drop S off here last night but said there was no need for verbal exchanges. (hence the no heated exchanges) A few times the website got heated (by him) but I quickly brought it back down. The last post, I stated I'm no longer going back and forth with him. There were points I disagreed with but I no longer see the point in defending or arguing the points. I ask his opinion where he said I had not (when he answered, he realized he had been asked, it was just not negotiable and had agreed to it, which was our S spending the night on "school" nights. I let him know this was not for ME, it would actually be easier for me not to do all of this alone but I had to put S needs in front of my own, and stated, we both do. He admitted that the reason he wanted him there during those times was that he missed giving him a bath and getting him ready for school. Basically admitting it was HIS desire, not for the well being of S.

The drop off last night was VERY interesting. He did try to talk to me but I just talked to S. It was heart wrenching because S kept telling me to "give daddy a hug" I had just gotten back from a wedding so I knew I looked pretty darn good. Hair done like he likes it (swear it wasn't on purpose) nice outfit and makeup done. He wrote me a little "journal" entry when he got back and, among other things, "Thank you for the drop off at your place. It was a little awkward but it was nice to sort of see you again" I haven't responded. I don't mean to be cold, but I know he had surgery today. I thought of writing him back and wishing him well, but I know he will see this as a weakness. He's trying to take 4 steps forward every time I allow one (at MY pace) I keep my pace. He knows I'm an extremely fun person. He knows how warm I am. He knows I am having a great time in my life right now AND continuing to be a great mom. My priorities are dead on, he knows his are the ones that are screwed up. He knows I know him better than anyone, his exW, OW, and even himself. I don't need to say a word. It's bothering him that I'm moving on!

I plan to have S draw him a get well note to send to his apartment. I plan to have S call this week. However, I will NOT ask him how he is doing. This might sound mean, but I know him, and he will take that as a sign that I'm weakening. It's actually helping that he thinks that I'm not pining over him or mourning the loss anymore. I don't plan on talking to him directly for quite some time. It keeps the ball in my court and is allowing me to gain strength. I'm not sure when I'll be ready, but I knew for the other two things, I'll know when the time is right.

Thanks again, 25!

[lovehurts]

Oh, and what happened with him and ExW - EXACTLY the same thing! He mistook relationship complacency on her part as the desire to not be married, so he moved on to other women while still married. I once told him he will always search for the euphoria of new love versus snuggling in to the comfort of forever. I also told him he always takes the path of least resistance. He avoids hard emotional work. He couldn't and didn't argue those points.

[25yearsmlc]

Oh, and what happened with him and ExW - EXACTLY the same thing! He mistook relationship complacency on her part as the desire to not be married, so he moved on to other women while still married.

Is this code for "not focussing exclusively on him, or having a normal life with interests other than him, or plain old 'real life'?" Sounds pretty high schoolish, sorry. But I mean, in effect he's a serial cheater. A Guy like him won't look in the mirror to face the fact that it's HIM, not you or the ex w or the new OW, (or the next)...but HIM... That isn't good news for any woman, or a great model for a son. Yikes...Keep up the great GAL work. GAL Is not a tactic, it's your life. KEEP IT UP!! For you, and your son.

I once told him he will always search for the euphoria of new love versus snuggling in to the comfort of forever. I also told him he always takes the path of least resistance. He avoids hard emotional work. He couldn't and didn't argue those points.

Then...do you want this man, as he is now, as a life long partner? And if you have no choice anyhow, why not admit the positives of his absence, which is that you don't have two "Boys" to give all your energy to, and you can perhaps someday be in a R with an adult male. Just a thought. And yes, people can change. But until if and when that happens, your only healthy option is to keep doing what works [/color[color:#CC0000]]and is what you are doing, ie GAL, being upbeat and having a PMA, etc...and raising that boy of yours into a good strong loving Man...
(( ))

[lovehurts]

I can't read all of what you posted in response to mine because I'm on my phone, but I can see enough of it! . Yes, you are right, it's not ME, it wasn't ex W! I know this now. I'm evaluating, to an extent, if I even want to save this. Do I want him back now, as is? Absolutely not! No question. If he grows and learns, maybe. I'm trying to focus less on that, though, and more of what I want out of life. I know I want to be an amazing mom raising and amazing little boy. I'm working in life lessons. At 4, he knows what a compliment is and what it means. I'm focusing on the people in my life that truly love and appreciate me and letting them know how much I love and appreciate them. I am surrounded by beautiful people who think the same of me! It's wonderful to be right now!

I can't believe how far I've come to reach this but it feels amazing!

Thank you for your words of wisdom!

[25yearsmlc]

I don't have anything to say to all that except, "well done". Congrats, and keep it up. You'll backslide now and then, and when you do, come read that post of yours.
( hugs)

[StillLearning]

I made the mistake of saying something to my mother-in-law about OM because I don’t have a big support group. I asked her to keep it between us and she agreed so I hope that happens. I told my parents but they have no contact with my W. My situation is somewhat different b/c we had gotten into swinging and I first REALLY noticed pulling away with an EA with one of the guys that we swung with and she was talking to constantly and was “a friend” and my W wasn’t giving up friends for me. I can understand exposing so that they have to face the real world b/c I think my W is enjoying the secrecy. Family can be dangerous, I slipped with my mother-in-law and I know my sister-in-law is pushing my W to divorce because she thought I was bad for W from the beginning.

The snooping is poisonous. It is what really brought things to a brink for my M and has made me sick. Knowing my W is having an EA/PA right now is killing me and the thoughts are so hard to stop. Those sick feelings are very real on a physical level and the only way I have found to stop the pain is to stop the snooping.

I like 25yearsmlc description about justification. I committed a lot of wrongs and I am attempting to be empathetic about why she is doing this…very tough but necessary. If my W can forgive me for my wrongs I believe I can forgive her for all of this. Still don’t know if I’d ever want details about her general dating and OM or not.

[Cadet]

Bumping this thread up to point out that MWD does have an opinion about sharing information about the affair.