Albuquerque living

[ericmsant2]

Hey Alb,

Just stopping by to see how you are doing.

I find the unspoken OW issue becoming larger and larger in my mind. I haven't broached the subject yet.

IMO, I would not. You just may scare him away by forcing him to acknowlege something that he may not be ready to.


BTW, have you ever read Mila's posts. If not, I suggest you do a search on her.

I hope all is well on your end.

Eric

[TAMF]

Al - you are not allowed to comment on my thread JK!!! I know I will hear an earfull when you get settled from your vaca. I deserve it...but if it makes you feel better, Eric has CHALLENGED me on my FB not to let any cake eating go on. He-he.

I really have missed my new bestie while you have been off having fun with your family! I hope you had a wonderful time. I saw some of the pics and you looked fantastic! great dress by the way!

[Albuquerque]

Thanks for the kind thoughts Eric and TAMF. This has been an interesting few days to say the least. Time for another long journal entry so go get a snack and a drink.

My recent trip to see my family was great. The wedding was a blast and I truly enjoyed myself. My H absence was missed. My brother didn't say anything to me, but my parents were saddened/disappointed. I understood that. I have not passed that on to H because I don't see the value in it. I'm sure he is saddened/disappointed with himself. While visiting, H went through periods where he would text me a lot, and then other times where he seemed to not want to text much. Since he has shown some change to me, I have changed my approach to him slightly and have instigated a few texts TO him unlike before. When he seemed "sullen" (can you seem sullen via text?!), I just let him be. It really didn't bother me.

The night before the wedding, we ended up having a LONG discussion via text. I was glad we did because in a way, it allowed us to finally complete our original conversation that was cut short due to D. He again indicated that he knew he was deeply disturbed. He even went so far as to apologize for the fact that "you were at the epicenter of my nuclear craziness". That really meant a lot to me. I gave him my thoughts on our relationship. I told him that I felt that we were essentially two incomplete people during our marriage. Our reliance on each other, while romantic to start with, can end up feeling burdensome years later. I told him that I had used this opportunity to grow in the areas I felt needed addressing. And that a new relationship would need to consist of two WHOLE people who can enhance each other's lives rather than DEPEND on each other. He indicated to me that he was afraid that I might not like the real him. I told him that I couldn't answer that question but I welcomed to opportunity to meet the real him when he was ready. (Again, considered broaching OW but still didn't feel it was time). Again, he stated that he saw true change in me and still felt I'd be better off with someone else. I told him that at the moment, I was not looking for that. I told him that I had not stopped loving him and was OK waiting to see what the future held. In a roundabout way he asked if I had been seeing anyone and in a blunt way I responded that no I hadn't and that I had no doubt he had. Then I went on and discussed something else. I'm sure he caught my meaning but decided not to discuss it so I let it go. As it was close to 3 am, our conversation just kind of stopped.

Well yesterday was our usual post martial arts class sushi dinner night. My H had already told me he was queasy and didn't feel like sushi but opted to go anyway for the company. I asked if he was ill and he said no, I'm just crazy (meaning that his anxiety/depression issues were at fault, not a stomach bug or anything). He just had fried rice while we had our usual. And again, we stood by the cars after dinner and chatted. Both of us had had way too much sake and we needed to kind of metabolize anyhow. We both ended up sitting next to each other on the hood of my car while my D tried ignoring our silly behavior and was listening to her music. My H and I quickly stopped having any personal space as we discussed music stuff and we ended up having a make out session (much to my surprise and delight). The make out session quickly advanced to where H was grinding on me and I had to point out that D was right there! He stopped and we both looked and she had her back to us (I think she probably saw us and was embarassed and possibly happy to see us acting like teenagers). H went back to the make out session and asked me in a hushed voice whether I wanted him to follow me home. And I knew he meant follow me to bed. As much as I wanted to, I told him that wouldn't be good to do without a conversation (meaning I needed to get the OW issue out in the open). He didn't ask what I meant by that but still held me tight and then said good night and said good night to D.

The moment I arrived home, he texted me and asked me to text him to make sure I got home safe. I responded that I had. That started another long texting conversation. He started off my apologizing for his drunken forwardness. And DING DING DING, I finally felt like the time was right. I told him I didn't mind at all. But I was not willing to be the "other woman" in any situation, that was something he needed to figure out, and that I apologized for giving into temptation. He responded with

"heh. Other woman"

Me - "It is what it is"

Him - "Hmmm"

Me - "I shouldn't play that role no matter how "deserving" I may feel I am of you. It's not fair"

Him - "Well I guess we need a conversation then"

Me - "Any time you are ready"

The texting conversation went on for awhile about our past issues but surprisingly NOT about the OW issue that he didn't really admit to but certainly didn't deny. Eventually, he said he would just call since it was easier. The conversation started back up dealing with the OW issue. He started off by saying that he had been troubled for the past month wondering how I would take "things". I told him that I was aware of the situation. He asked me how long. I told him I knew for sure after a trip he took to Key Largo. He thought for a moment trying to figure when that was. Then he said "yeah I guess it was around that time". Internally, I was relieved that my instincts had been correct all along.

He told me that when all this internal turmoil started happening to him in January, he knew he had to make changes. And he looked at it with the perspective that he needed to figure out how to be happy without me because he didn't feel like he was making me happy and he sure wasnt happy. He said he didn't have intentions of starting anything with anyone but knew it was a possibility. He had been honest and flat out told me that back in February. He said at the time of the Key Largo trip, he felt like our marriage was over except for the paperwork (which he admitted was still important). But he said, "whenever I would look at the paperwork, I would get a panic attack and have to take Xanax". He said that he started to realize that he really wasn't any happier, any more fulfilled, any better. And so he started changing his thinking from "how do I become happy without Alb, to, how can I become happy WITH Alb". He said the changes he noticed in me were a big factor and the communication was the key. He again said that the simple conversation we had prior to his short road trip was the clincher. That it flowed so well and that I was able to have disagreements with him without being disagreeable. He said it got him thinking that there's no one else that he can have a conversation with like that. I told him I felt the same way about him.

The conversation eventually flowed back to some of the problems that we had in our marriage and how things could potentially be different. I stated that he was a self-admitted workaholic and my love language is quality time. So I ended up frustrated a lot of the time, but didn't feel right demanding more time since he always seemed to be doing work FOR us. I guess I felt it kind of selfish. And so I convinced myself I was OK with it, but deep down, I wasn't and I think that affected the way I dealt with him in other ways. He said that I should be more assertive about demanding his time and that would help. I disagreed with him slightly on that. I told him that while it may help the situation on a short term basis, it still ends up with him(and me) relying on ME to make the situation better. And that without internal work of his own on that issue, it would likely lead to frustration and resentment in the future. But I also agreed that some action on my part could certainly help. All in all, it was an interesting discussion. He apologized again for everything, which meant a lot. Interestingly enough though, he chose not to spend much time discussing the OW. I didn't push it either. I told him that I had no expectations of him and didn't expect him to be making any difficult choices right now. I told him it took us a long time to get to this point and it will take a long time to heal if we choose to go down that path.

So where am I now? I feel much better. Not because my H seems to be making changes (although that's a great change to see), but because I finally feel like I can be completely honest with H. The OW issue is out in the open. I don't know if he realizes I KNOW who she is. And as respectful as I'm trying to be to her (since I don't know what kind of stories he's told her about the situation), I can't help but feel a wicked sense of victory that despite the "newness and funness" of their relationship, she still left him sad, depressed and lonely, and looking to ME. SCORE! I'm also happy that I had a slight make out session. It's been a long time and it felt GOOOOOOOD But there are still a lot of unanswered questions. I don't know what he will do about the OW. I will respect his privacy on that, but I will continue to watch and observe. I will not succumb to temptation and know that I have the strength to do that despite a long dry spell, the emotions of having H wanting me back and the effects of alcohol.

I see genuine change in him. He is making himself at home when visiting us more. He continues to lock the door when he leaves. He cleaned up the litterbox after our trip. He took out the trash without me asking. The little things that seem to indicate he is emerging from his fog. But he is still very troubled. I think the realization that I already knew about OW and could still talk to him in a conversational fashion with no bitterness helped him a lot. He didn't say so, but I got that sense from him and think that it may have taken a great load off his mind. But I know that if he does choose to break things off with her, it will not be easy. He's developed quite a web of friends from her and from knowing him, I know he doesn't like to have people NOT like him. So it won't be a pretty picture. But he has to lie in the bed he made.

I admit I am becoming more hopeful.

[TAMF]

1st - welcome back (wait, is that a good thing or a bad thing? LOL!) I have missed you!

2nd - wow! got the OW issue out there! I know that has been hard to keep silent about. will be interesting to see what he does now that you know.

3rd - nice to know that I am not the only one with the physical contact with H! okay, alright, I went all the way and you only went to first base - detail, details. but maybe you won't be quite as tough on me when we talk later

4th - he is really opening up isn't he? such a difference from even a few weeks ago. I will tell you what you already know - he still has a long way to go. don't freak him out by expecting too much from him right now. Go at his pace not yours. Take delight in the babysteps, but don't get too frustrated if he backtracks. slow and easy, slow and easy. He is like a patient opening his eyes after a year in a coma - he might feel like sleeping again is easier than the hard work of recovery that is ahead.

(that sounds like something you would say to me! am I learning?)

[Albuquerque]

TAMF,

I'm pretty sure the main reason YOU went all the way and I only went to first base is because you're blonde and I'm a brunette!

Like I told you earlier today, I think this is forward movement but he hasn't said anything about what he plans to do with OW. So I will watch and wait.

[ericmsant2]

Hey Alb,

I admit I am becoming more hopeful

Hope = GOOD
EXPECTATION = ???

You fill in the blank.

Glad to see you had fun with your fam.

I need to digest your post a little more before I comment.

God Bless,
Eric

[Albuquerque]

Eric,

Trying to still keep expectations at zero. I don't know what the future holds. But I can't deny that things appear to be moving in the right direction.

Received an email from H this morning asking about which IC I had seen because he didn't want to end up picking the same one. In the email he mentioned also possibly pursuing couple's therapy.

I responded by telling him who I'd seen and that while I was open to couple's therapy, I would not consider it while he still had a girlfriend. I told him that I wasn't saying that to force any choices/decisions, and that he needed to take the time he needed.

This was part of his response


The girlfriend thing is rapidly becoming a non-issue. I'll let you know when it's fully a non-issue. That was one of those things that was an attempt, like moving out and trying to change things at work, to address my underlying unhappiness and frustration. Guess what? Still frustrated and unhappy. I was serious when I told you, during our conversation last monday, that no part or area of my life has seen any improvements. I've taken two steps forward and five steps back. There have been a few small successes here and there, but for the most part, this whole experience has been a giant waste of my life and a hurt to everyone else's.

I don't feel like you're forcing anything. In fact, your calm patience has been the killing blow for me. If you had just simply screamed and yelled and threw things, or been a bitch about interacting with D, we would be on very separate roads right now. You did exactly the right thing at the right time. I'm sorry it's taken this long for that to sink through my thick cranium. I'm sorry for a lot of things.

He hasn't said or done anything yet to make me doubt what he is saying. Now, that said, he's been talking about seeing a counselor for weeks now and has yet to make an appointment. So we'll see if that happens. But he's flat out told me he needs to do that because without him fixing himself, our relationship cannot be as strong as it needs to be.

We went out to lunch today because we needed to do some last minute shopping for D's birthday (which is today). He seems less weighted down, happier, lighter. The conversation flowed easily. We talked for hours. When he was going to leave, we ended up having another make out session. Since D wasn't home from school yet, it lasted a lot longer and we ended up getting to second base. He didn't push the sex issue since he knows where I stand on that. And I guess I'm of the opinion that even if he has a girlfriend, I still feel entitled to at least make out with my husband. But then again, it might just me being selfish (but I kind of don't care). He has stated he plans to end things with the OW. I will wait and watch. It kind of scares me that so many changes are happening at once.

[TAMF]

How will you know if he is done with the OW? I have asked myself this question many times. Take his word for it? Even though I would want to, I think that would be really naive.

I read a book about surviving an affair and it had a list of things that the LBS should ask for to prove they are not having contact - but I don't know. what do you and others think?

I hope that you get to that point AL, I really do.

[Albuquerque]

That's a good question and one I've thought about. The fact that she's in a completely different time zone helps. I know its been recommended to have access to his emails, phone, texts etc. I think that's bogus. It's easy to make new email accounts, new phones, new skype accounts etc. If they want to contact OW they will find a way. Especially since I'm dealing with a computer savvy guy. There has to come a point where you just have to trust your instincts I guess. Sometimes you just have to work without a net but be prepared for a hard fall.

[TimeHeals]

There has to come a point where you just have to trust your instincts I guess.

This is code for trust your feelings. Prisons are full of people who trust their feelings.

That part of your brain at the back of your skull ain't all God gave you to work with.

Somebody who is willing to work on marriage should be willing to work for your respect, right? And earn your trust too, right? Words and feelings can be nice and all, but... people who are interested in you are pretty easy to read because most folks can't keep up an act for more than a few months if you are spending much time with them.