I'm very happy for you that you were able to have that healing convo with H. Sorry that H seems h3llbent on moving forward with D. This sounds similar to my situation with H/XH before the D, although we still haven't had the type of healing convo you and H just had.
Does your H have a tendency toward rigidity in his personality? I'm asking because my XH certainly does. He likes to "check things off his lists". It gives him a feeling of accomplishment and a level of control over his world (important for children of alcoholics). I gained a better understanding of this personality attribute when I listened to Daniel Amen's "The Brain in Love" CD set (there's a book too). The brains of people like this have different activity levels in an area of the brain (cingulate gyrus) that is needed for flexible thinking so they just simply don't have the capacity to be as flexible in their thinking as we are. There is some research that shows that adult children of alcoholics have changes in this area of the brain. Amen talks about how to deal with people who have this type of problem.
In my situation I have also found out that XH's BMF had a much more negative influence on H/XH than I had previously thought. Is there someone in your H's life who might be pushing him toward D? All of your H's actions indicate that OW isn't a strong influence on how he spends his time, so this is confusing.
What are the laws regarding D in your area? How soon might this happen? In my state, D can occur within 1 week if both parties agree. I told H/XH that I needed more time to adjust to the idea of D and asked that the documents we signed stipulate that the D would be filed 6 months after we signed the paperwork. This bought me 6 extra months to DB.
I some times think having watched them that once they have let go of OW and want to reiniate relationship with LBS they are a bit like the ostrich they do a little courtship dance and then when the LBO (Left behind ostrich) responds they promptly panic and stuff their heads in the sand.. It does seem that even when your darling Ostrich hubby sticks his head in the sand he keeps coming up and forgetting he'd planned to divorce you and again goes ahead with his little courtship dance and so on and so on.
So the question is how do you get him to dance a little longer each time
Rabbit, I LIKE this! Glad to hear that your reconciliation with H is going well!
My friend said tonight, "Do you think he's just testing again to see where the relationship really sits?" It's a thought. Today at swimming, there was no question that we were very firmly in the friendship stage.
Hes definitely got a severe case of Ostrichaphobia then Cas lol!
Honestly Id quietly offer him his divorce on a plate every time he asks for it but always leave him to instigate it as before. If he really wanted to divorce you he'd have done it by now as we have seen time and time again on here.
Youv'e got nothing to lose by playing his dancing class out each time and seeing how it goes, it kills the heart to keep doing it but one must make sure that the scales of love are equally balanced! On one side you must allocate the amount of love you have left in you to keep going for your marriage and on the other scale you must have an equal amount of love for yourself that you dont lose the plot complete and end up wasting a life waiting for him..
Chin up kiddo ones thing is for sure it will go one way or the other someday, what isnt for sure who will take the final decision you or him. xxxx
____________________________
W 47 H 47 M 24 T 30
Once lost but now found and happily married again!
To answer the question today....Send him a simple "Happy Birthday" text in the morning of his birthday.
Two weeks from now....???
I would not plan a gift regardless. A card at this stage will be hard to pick out. Leave it to last minute and do what feels right to you at the time. IMO, be thoughtful and simple....you will therefore be sending the message that you are the new and changed Cas and H's actions/choices will not revert your hard work.
Regardless of the current state of our marriages, we have to maintain the changes we have made because we are better people for it. I lost my marriage because of complacency and ignorance and allowing a depressed state to got out of control. I am renewed and the new Sanderika will maintain her changes. It was hard work to get here. It would only set me back to allow H to think I haven't really changed. The renewed Sanderika will continue to be kind and thoughtful towards her friends and we (H and I) have worked hard to become friends. I will never let my guard down in front of H, I won't ever give him the satisfaction. That was actually some wise advice my FIL gave me 4 years ago.
On my H's birthday back in August (when he was pouring on the D talk) I sent him a simple "Happy Birthday" text early in the am. He replied "Thanks". In September, H served me D papers by process server the day after my birthday....he did not wish me a happy birthday. To me that makes me the bigger person and makes H look small and selfish. It's the H I do not know.
Cas, it's really hard to know what the right approach is. You said it yourself earlier. Relationships begin as friendships. The marriage we had is gone. Does that mean a new relationship cannot be created?
The bonfire will be a good way to dispose of the old. The old must go....I agreed with this 100%. The future will be very interesting, our relationships will continue for the rest of our days because we have children. What can be created from this? It's our choice now...
Read the other thread I have been typing on by Beatrice. Tulsa Time gave us some insight into his thoughts about his wife after his affair and hurt he caused her. Very interesting...
I have decided to let my H go and let God. I am a kind and thoughtful woman, I will treat my H the way I would want a friend to treat me. It's H's choice on how to reciprocate. I am content in the fact I have changed and done all I could to save us. What I learned is the old isn't meant to be saved. The new options and choices may be very fulfilling. Only time will tell and time will heal us all....keep an open mind to possibilities. If we let hurt stay, will will never rise above it just wallow in it.
(((((Hugs)))))
Sanderika
ME48/H48MLC T 33y M 28y S16 OW 8/7/05 Bomb 8/16/05 Sep 9/05 H f'd D 10/3/08 D pp'd 1/20/09,7/24/09,12/4/09 D dismissed 2/5/10 H served me D papers again 9/4/10 D dismissed 9/26/11
Cas, I'm very happy for you that you were able to have that healing convo with H.
It was powerful. I cried. he would have felt it, too.
Originally Posted By: goodattitudegirl
Does your H have a tendency toward rigidity in his personality?
Yes!
Originally Posted By: goodattitudegirl
Is there someone in your H's life who might be pushing him toward D? All of your H's actions indicate that OW isn't a strong influence on how he spends his time, so this is confusing.
I don't think so. He's usually very decisive. There's nobody in his life except ow, our kids and his family. His family don't get involved.
Originally Posted By: goodattitudegirl
What are the laws regarding D in your area? How soon might this happen? In my state, D can occur within 1 week if both parties agree. I told H/XH that I needed more time to adjust to the idea of D
Not sure but it's no fault divorce so it would be fairly quick, esp if we lodge it ourselves. There'll be no more time cos we've been apart 3 years.
Thanks GAG for your interesting insights. I will re-read your post tomorrow with a fresher head!
You have laid the path wide open for H. You have told him exactly where the papers are. Leave it alone now. Let H take the next step. Let him come to you....
You have also told him your opinion. He will be thinking about that for sure. I have come to realize they think long and hard on their choices and actions. We have a lot of power in creating their thinking and are able to send them into a tailspin with our rational and wise words.
This will be hard, I know.
If it's a mere case of Ostrichaphobia (LOL) then this is a classic case of running back inside the tunnel. Leave him alone for now. Limit your initiated contact back to only what is necessary topics about daughter and son.
If he's serious, you'll hear from him again real soon on the paperwork.
I wonder if he is simply feeling like a creep and it's his guilt over his past choices and actions that are screaming in his ear. He has come so far in several weeks. Those who come a far distance back will slide several more times out of fear and guilt. They have to be extremely comfortable to stay out in the open. Your Patience and Forgiveness has brought him this far....
Sanderika
ME48/H48MLC T 33y M 28y S16 OW 8/7/05 Bomb 8/16/05 Sep 9/05 H f'd D 10/3/08 D pp'd 1/20/09,7/24/09,12/4/09 D dismissed 2/5/10 H served me D papers again 9/4/10 D dismissed 9/26/11
Rabbit, Sanderika and GAG, Thanks for your valuable feedback. It's been so helpful! I need time to absorb it.
I went back through my skype conversations and I see he mentioned divorce and settlement 12 Aug and again 29 Aug. Both times I told him I have the paperwork here and to come by and do it with me. Both times he's said ok but done nothing. We even got to the point of nominating a weekend to do it.
I think H let himself get too close when he said sorry and took responsibility for his actions. He then had to remind me that although we had shared this quite intense healing moment we were still getting divorced. I agreed but reminded him as I have before that for me once divorced it changes the dynamic between us as we become co-parents rather than friends. That's me being rigid in my thinking, I guess.
Interestingly, he didn't ask for a time we could work on the papers or suggest he could pick them up from me. He told me that the delay was costing money. H is a business person. He is decisive, intelligent and very money conscious. The only thing I can see is that he is sitting on the fence....too scared to take the final step. He's had numerous opportunities to do this. There's a pattern here...... initiate settlement/divorce and when I get involved blame me for non action and again do nothing. Why? Because all the way through I've said divorce changes everything and he doesn't want to risk having me leave his life entirely. In the meantime he can have me and ow on side while he lives alone.
So after a wonderful day with a healing conversation and weeks of mutual work towards a positive relationship he's built another wall between us but not a wall that's high enough that we can't see each other, just enough to obscure the view. In the past this would have been an explosive argument. Now it's a glitch.
So I have to ask myself again; do I stop the limbo and give him what he wants? Do I just move on as if nothing has happened?
MIL and FIL arrive Saturday. They stay for 10 days with H. They love me and care for me. They will listen but they won't get involved. They will have a perspective though.
Bottom line is I am tired. H and I have continually shown how compatible we are but there's a boundary around him that keeps me in the beginning friend category. There'll be family outings and dinners and that's wonderful but it's not what I want in the long term. Life is too short for this and I have given too much time already. aaaaagggghhhh
He told me that the delay was costing money. H is a business person. He is decisive, intelligent and very money conscious. The only thing I can see is that he is sitting on the fence....too scared to take the final step. He's had numerous opportunities to do this. There's a pattern here......
Cas, I think the men in our lives are twin sons of different mothers (borrowing from Dan Fogelberg and Tim Weisberg). My XH is also very money conscious and co-owns a small business.........and rigid in his thinking. Big difference though was that H/XH shoved the D down my throat. I told him that I needed more time to get used to the idea (he wanted the D to be final 5 months after the bomb) because I was trying to buy time to DB. I was SO frustrated that he was SO single-minded that I told him that if he insisted on the D then I would cut him off and never speak to him again......and I meant it. He said "That's not what I want" ) ARGHHHHHHH!........and within 24 hours had agreed to my terms for the D decree.
I also feel that divorce changes things - but does the ML person sees that, at this stage? I wonder if there are different types of MLC divorce. There are people here whose spouses decide on divorce early in the MLC and follow it through as decisively as they are able [that is to say, usually with a great deal of contradiction!]. In this case I think they feel that the divorce will help them to sort it all out in their minds, and they will be 'free'.
But there is another type, that many of us experience, where divorce is initiated relatively late in the MLC - often after several years, although they may have talked about it for some time prior to this. It is usually very protracted, taking many months if not years, when in most cases it could be accomplished quickly, if that is what they really wanted
I am not sure what the divorce represents in this case - I think they may be seeking closure on their crisis and their actions during the crisis, and want in some way to start with a clean slate. Even the relationship with us, if my husband is to be believed. Sometimes in all of the stuff they say, there are nuggets of truth. All of it is their 'truth' at the time, but some of it is really true for them.
I suspect that this type of divorce comes, in 'stage' terms, [which I have some uneasiness about, but are helpful if not watched obsessively] when they are entering the later stages of the crisis, and wish to avoid the real crash of facing what they have done. The divorce is a distraction, a weapon, an instrument of control, and an ending of the chaos that has engulfed them, or so they feel.
They are coming out of the tunnel, slowly, and horrified at the devastation. The divorce is usually on and off.
I was told by a friend of mine who went through a MLC not to underestimate the power of guilt and shame that they are experiencing, but not yet able to fully 'own up' to. They do not know how to deal with it. The time we have spent understanding ourselves, growing, and healing, they have spent in acute emotional pain and crisis. Where are their resources for coping with this?
It is a heartbreaking mess, and like so many people here, I am conflicted about my own role. It is very very hard to put aside our own pain, and there is a risk in reaching out to a MLCer that they misinterpret whatever we do. They feel worthless and cannot deal with anyone else's emotional needs.
