Have been away from the boards for some time. I hope everyone is well. I think my thread was deleted.
Will summarize then attach my signature.
I recently discovered my W had been having an EA turned PA end of August which I exposed beginning of Sept to OM (2 actually) as well as his W (OMW2). I also exposed to select family members and friends. for first few weeks all seemed to just move along sooo slowly. Was being pulled in multiple directions: sep, stay, D... ugh. nothing new here i guess. the other members of the board, especially Allen and other friends like Jin were indispensable.
I was obviously devastated by the affair. How can u recover i asked myself? then came to realization (albeit with re-awakening of my religious faith) that I could only affect me. I could not make my W love me or want to stay with me. as much as I realized that there was no way her A could result in a lasting relationship, her behavior spoke for itself:
from "I did it bc I wanted to push you away," to "I despise you," to "I stopped loving you long ago," yadda, yadda, yadda...
I can even smile when i think about it.
We continued along that line though i did get here to agree to no contact, transparency and to go to Retrouvaille. the last thing on the w/e of the 25th/26th of Sept is what propelled me to where i am now. dont know if i belong here or elsewhere on forum.
W re-committed to idea of trying to make M work. The day before Retrou? W felt we were done. Evening after Retrou w/e ended? Hope restored. It has been 2 weeks since the day we went. lots of changes where we talk and share emotions as part of what we learned at Retrou.
in typical fashion I want to speed things up and can be impatient at times. Have always been HL w/ W seemingly LL (which i believe she is somewhat having to do with childhood abuse), but want to connect w/ W sexually in addition to emotionally. m frustrated sometimes by stroking her skin and cuddling with her which she actually seems to like.
I realize that I am only 4 weeks into this thing post-exposure, in the middle of Retrou and more to go. ugh.
would put more but my posts tend to be long so will stop...
________________________________________________________________ M: 42, W: 40 T: 18y, M: 15y S7 S9; D4 D13 D15 --------------------------------------------- Nov 2008 - Feb 2009 - EA/PA - OM1 Mar 2009 - Exposed - W didnt come clean 100%, admitted A, no details May 2009 - Nov 2009 - FT but no resolution Nov 2009 - DB'ing (not very well bc) Mar 2010 - ILYBNILWY - still ML regularly Mar 2010 - Wife shuts me out of FaceBook Mar 2010 - Sep 2010 - EA/PA - OM2 (lives in FL but working NY) 9/1/10 - OM2 moves back to FL, his M estranged in past, 4 children 8/31/10 - install keylogger (shouldve done it sooner, duh) 9/6/10 - Confront W/OM2/OMW2 9/7/10 - Exposure family/friends 9/7/10 - W says may file D, talk sep? 9/7/10 to present - OM2 discloses A in detail to OMW2, offers wife 100% transparency 9/14/10 - Communicated OM2/OMW2, end contact, sep no longer option Sept 2010 - W initially won't admit A until 9/16/10, wanting "closure", reluctantly agreed no contact Retrouvaille 9/24-9/26: great experience, W hopeful for 1st time, agrees FB/social networking is bad influence, texts/emails much less, mostly warm but some cold days, not physical yet but for occasional short kisses --------------------------------------------- Current - Contact with OM2 unknown, suspect done for now bc W acting strange, ?withdrawal Current - only small details of A revealed, but transparent Current - completed Retrouvaille, pretty good thus far, talking, sharing feelings, talks about future, wearing rings again (!!) after few weeks of not
Thanx Jin. Easier said tho bc today W voicing lotsa doubts. Ugh. Kinda forgot there will b ups n downs. Long haul here. U n I are in same boat really. Have been limping along since last year with not one but two EA/PA's no less. Am I interested in making my M work? Sure. But sometimes I look at my ditch n ask if I have what it takes to see this thru. I will NOT excuse any backward slides by W. I smell OM2 n I'm done. That will b it. Suspect some of W's behavior is due to warring emotions n feelings over her A however much she's denied that.
Tonight we were talking about her therapist who actually asked my W why is she's even bothering trying to work on our M given the "emotional abuse" I've subjected the W to? Ha. I responded by saying I don't like her therapist n made short comment on my hurt from her A. The W was speechless bc almost couldn't bring herself to see how much hurt she's heaped upon me. Totally self centered. But it's typical I guess. Maybe the insight into what she's wrought will hit later. Who knows. She has doubts n I can honestly say I'm sometimes weary n disappointed in her n her antics n her words n feelings n general lack of regard for anyone else but herself.
She can tell that to her therapist. I also asked if she had revealed everything to her therapist. She implied yes but m doubtful. Still evasive with actually fessing up to A. Ugh. Add frustrating to my other feelings. Maybe m just tired bc it's late. Besides yearn physical intimacy at times but WAY too soon. Last night W said all along she has never yearned nor had sexual desires or attraction to n for me. Hard to believe. She said all along it was one sided from me only. Yeah. Right. Guess it's rule #1, no?
Remember that she will go through a mourning period for her OM, even if she does want the A to be over. You probably have 2-3 months of this to go.
Hm, I would take what she says her therapist says with a grain of salt. I can't imagine a therapist would say exactly that. Mine asks me questions about how things make me feel and helps navigate through those feelings.
You can also take it as a chance to answer that "emotional abuse" with a little 180.
And sexual desire for women is tricky. We're funny creatures sometimes and often we don't entirely understand ourselves. I would say, if you aren't already, start doing little things to make her feel beautiful and special. Bring her flowers or something else special that you know she will like, but expect nothing in return. Suggest doing something fun that you know she will enjoy. I know as I was losing my desire for WH it was largely connected to no longer feeling special to him. It was like sex was expected because I should just want sex. I know I closed myself off from him because of that.
H32 Me32 together:10 M:5 No kids ILYBINILWY 7/28/10 OW found 8/15 A exposed 8/31 I Move 9/3 Dark 10/1
thanks Jin. i am not checking boards as often. work, family, but still drawn to it and to everyone here. : ) i know u r all with me bc we are in this together.
u r sooo right. she WILL have to go thru her mourning period for OM. i have a feelig there are times when she is feeling amorous but looks over at me to discover i am not OM. ha. so the clock continues to tick. no biggie. only want for my W to return. to realize what has happened. not asking for big apology. no way.
u r correct about the 180 as well. i have worked so hard to curb my anger, have listened to the things she's said about what has been the problem in the past. at times the W is incredulous but suspect i am planting the seeds which should hopefully bear fruit later.
insofar as sexual desire? totally see it. W tried denying it a couple of nights ago that when we stopped having sex it had nothing to do with what she felt for OM and was 100% bc of me. i believe woman only have room in the heart and in the bedroom for one person. not like us guys i guess, although i can tell u at this point i am not the least bit interested in anyone else right now. work with some pretty women who are very nice to me, but no thanks. and i would NEVER do to their spouses (for the ones who are married) what mine has done to me. NEVER.
great suggestion. periodically i kiss her neck and stop at that bc i know she likes it. i make her breakfast and am nice to her. would like to go away with her without kids for at least one night w/ no expectation whatsoever of any kind of physical intimacy. just spending time alone would suffice. all of these small steps will hopefully bear fruit in the end. i am patient, and THAT is not easy for someone like me given the way i'm wired.
i hope all is well with u. sometimes it is not so good to post and read the board lots during a day. it can be draining.
It's surely a roller coaster in a recovering marriage, even with moving towards healing. You are growing stronger in your own skin with all this and are on a wonderful path. Are you attending all the RV posts? Are you dialoguing every day? That is the safest way I know of to be able to share and (especially) hear feelings, especially ones that may be uncomfortable. Creating that safe space is so important, which is why getting into the daily habit of dialogue is so beneficial.
I'm brand new here, and I haven't had a chance to read all of your - so please understand if there is something I've missed.
I'm just moving this back to your thread from the Forgiveness thread.
About your W's abuse by her father, in my experience it's one of those things that you can't compartmentalize/deny forever. Denial is a way of being dishonest with yourself about your true feelings, and that's what keeps you stuck on the drama triangle. However, an abuse victim can only deal with her abuse at the rate she's ready to do so. It's possible that won't happen until her father actually dies. Is the rest of her family supporting her avoidance of him?
In terms of your relationship, it's early days in the no contact/withdrawal phase. I'm sure you're aware there's a high likelihood that she may have more contact, etc, before she's truly ready to work on herself and the M. Have you prepared yourself for that?
I'm impressed with the work you've done on yourself and your compassion for your W in this situation. I hope you will continue to work on setting yourself free from her betrayal through forgiveness, but also that you will continue to work on improving yourself. Are there further changes that would make you the kind of man you'd most admire?
funny enough just spoke with my wife couple hours ago. she was taking my 9 y/o to football practice tonight and said all he did was ask why he didn't have a grandfather like all of the other kids he knows. again and again saying same to her, which obviously bothered her. i never met my father and hers is a child molester. shortly after the birth of our 2nd child (also a girl with the oldest now 15 and #2 13), we came to decision that our children could never be safe around her father hence we made the decision to cut him off.
we have talked about the importance of forgiveness mostly in the context of Retrouvaille. but tonight the W broached the idea of forgiveness vis-a-vis her father for 1st time ever. i said sure u could look at the idea of forgiving him but does that also mean having him involved or at least occasionally in contact with our children, albeit with 100% supervision? i told her that those were 2 separate things.
W's mother (my MiL) pretty cold cookie, unaffectionate, not terribly supportive emotionally and chose to stay w/ FiL despite the above. acts as if everything OK there but at same time has respected our decision. MiL has not pressed us to include FiL especially on holidays and special events like christenings and communion. W only has S who has psych problems. i suspect some of that could be result of having been victim of abuse also but SiL has never admitted to it. SiL is wound very tight too. both MiL and SiL have not questioned our decision. SiL has one D and she too has not allowed her to come into contact w/ FiL. SiL does talk w/ FiL tho and he reaches out to SiL to the best of my knowledge.
very, very strange is it not? it is probably typical of these sorts of things. i have only the utmost compassion, love and respect for my W however much we r in the sitch we r. love that picnic and the castle story. Retrouvaille was great. at times my W expresses great anger w/ how her A was exposed and continues to blame me for our troubles. but on other W has been very nice at times and seems to be making effort to connect w/ me. today in fact just she and I went on nice hike where we talked and connected.
i definitely sense an undercurrent of various things, from:
SADNESS - over our sitch and her "not feeling the same way about you" in her words. this includes saying i never felt sexually attracted to u for many years, perhaps the inceptin of our M which i do not believe. not true but hard when someomne says that to u. would i call this "depression" on the heels of her A w/ the resultant withdrawal i have been told to expect? maybe.
ANGER - over how I am responsible for all that went wrong w/ our M which i suspect is being used to mask her guilt over the A. we have talked about forgiving ourselves and each other, and the W reacted angrily last night to suggestion that she needs my forgiveness when i was the one who eff'd up. sounds like someone w/ guilt. W after all prides herself on being close to God and has readily acknowledged idea of breaking one of the 10 commandments and writing "how can he forgive me" in her Retrouvaille notebook.
HOPE - bc things seem to be going well at times w/ her acknowledging my changes as well as planning for the future which i find strange at times bc of where we currently stand in our M w/ W just having been outed from an A barely 5-6 weeks ago for 2nd time. whoa.
insofar as W contacting OM again? wow. i have never really discounted that possibility bc i know it's out there. from my talk w/ him and the many w/ OMW, they seem done w/ us but that is smokescreen potentially from him. do ultimately suspect OM is predator from prior behaviors and he enjoyed chase of my W who is attractive. she pined for him and "fell in love." possible that he wants nothing to do with her, but wouldnt guarantee it. moreover, W most def has deep feelings for him however much Retrouvaille has planted seed. do not trust that it is indeed truly OVER. the brain would tell me to be ready, but the heart quakes in fear over that possibility. i do not know if i am strong enough to take more games and clandestine BS from her in the pursuit of OM if that were to occur. ugh. i want to forget about it but know i cannot allow myself to. i KNOW that it does not hold any promise of a future for either of them yet marvel at how stupid they both are. like most of us on this board, we have a great capacity for love and forgiveness for why else would we be here. if not we would be on websites like myspouseisaloser.com or similar.
her behavior right now seems to be like that of a woman pulled in all directions not knowing what to do or where to turn. my wife is a Thinker. i know she understands that anything w/ A is illusion. but her heart is another. the addiction was very powerful.
i have embraced the idea of forgiveness. really. everytime i think about W and OM, drive by the motel where i think they met, hear her hurtful words like she never loved me or i cannot remember ever making love to u as if it meant something, look into her eyes and see the confusion/pain/hurt, look at my children and marvel at the beauty knowing that we made them together... i answer it the same way. i say that i can and do forgive her. i love her. i do that under God also. i ask for my forgiveness from the damage done to our M. i do know that her decision to have A was HER decision tho, not mine.
insofar as me? why yes. have repeatedly looked in the mirror and realized i have been left wanting as a father, husband, son and brother. no more. need to get out there and make friends too bc i am not alone. hard to do that though when u have 5 kids and are trying to work on your M with Retrouvaille. but no excuses, huh?
thank you for your words of support and kindness Cyrena. do not know if u r religious, but i have really come into contact w/ my spirituality for obvious reasons in past several weeks. suspect that one day when we go before God, our good words and deeds will be rewarded. You will be.
Savemymarr, you are a real inspiration in your honesty with your feelings and in being willing to go into their depths. It is so sad about your W's history with abuse in her FOO - and Cyrena is so right about her having to deal with it in her own time (which unfortunately may not necessarily end with her father's passing). The best thing you can do for her is to keep holding a safe space for her to express whatever feelings come up (i.e. daily dialogue!) and to make that daily decision spoken of in RV.
I hope you are attending all the post sessions, especially the one on forgiveness (my W and I are in the process of writing that one). After the posts, you get to write your own questions, and it would be so beneficial to be able to share your feelings - especially the anger and sadness.
