Not sure it makes any difference if they're stuck. Sounds to me like your H is projecting his anger at himself on you. It is all so sad...I'm no expert but maybe if he could just admit his mistakes and learn how to forgive himself, then he could move forward.
Yes, I think you have hit the nail on the head - he is angry with himself, but cannot see it, and needs to blame someone.
The trouble is, he has behaved very very horribly! There is a lot to forgive himself for, and I don't think he can get past this. He does appear to hit bottom, but bounces back. Like Snodderley says, not cooked yet, by a long way.
But I found your words very helpful on your thread. We confront the worst case scenario, that they are stuck forever, and get on with our lives. Occasionally I look back and it is painful.
I want to first thank you all for your words of support. It was helpful for me to read the validation of my thoughts and actions.
My H actually spent last Saturday here at the house with son and I. It was all very weird. He showed up unannounced and seemed to just hang around. I was actually fairly uncomfortable and felt really awkward. At the time he had no knowledge of my filing, neither one of us brought up the divorce. I actually predicted this behavior from him, took him 14 days to peek his head out of the sand. I treated him kindly and friendly without being too much so on both. He appeared to be a bit sheepish and insecure. He was an open book as to his activities and plans. Go figure.....
We have not talked since.....
I am very sad, I am sure I have done the right thing. I feel like a fish out of water. I don't like this one bit. I don't have a choice. H made his choice over and over again always picking the OW over his wife and son. What is...is, at this point if he wants to be there who am I to interfere.
Beatrice,
I was able to recreate a friendship with my H, it was not the other way around. H did not try, I did all the work. I adopted the thought of.....How can he divorce me if he likes me and loves me again? I changed in my mind, body and soul. I rolled up my sleeves and got to work on changing me first. I succeeded and H followed my lead. I once read: A relationship can be reconciled if one spouse changes. In the beginning if H spewed venom, I would simply just sit and let him rant. I never raised my voice or counteracted. I knew it was not about me. I knew it was H and his anger towards himself. I knew and he knew that he had screwed up big time. He was a man who had crossed the line and his guilt was (and still is) eating him alive. His ego and pride are now in control of him. I think all of the time H wants to return to the marriage. His ego and pride will not allow him to admit he really screwed up and to return would admit he has made a mistake. That is all very sad....
My H took 4 months at the beginning of trying to verbally and emotionally destroy me. I would not allow it. I would not engage in a conversation if he led this way. After 4 months he began to cower down and become rational. He slowly started to take my cues and allowed a friendship to blossom. We went on to spend a lot of time together and yes, we spent many nights together, generally 1-2 a week for 5 years. Unfortunately it never led to a full reconciliation. H also would or could not give up the OW and her cunning manipulations kept pushing for a divorce. Two months ago he again started to talk negative about us and it led to the filing.
I was able to put off the divorce for 5 years. (the divorce is happening because it should, H is still with the same OW (off and on) he left me for and H is still in a MLC) H has been held unaccountable for his choices and actions and it is time he face the truth about them and suffer the consequences of a divorce. My regrets are huge.....I will always feel a soul connection to my H. My son is the other loser, he doesn't deserve a broken family. My H is also a loser, he is too blind to see thus doesn't deserve my sympathy any longer.
Gosh, I could go on and on about the past 5 years....It was not easy to recreate the friendship, it was very heartbreaking and tumultuous. I basically made it my mission under the premise that it would reconcile us. It's funny, H wants the friendship to continue....I actually want it to cease.
(((Hugs))) to everyone,
Sanderika
ME48/H48MLC T 33y M 28y S16 OW 8/7/05 Bomb 8/16/05 Sep 9/05 H f'd D 10/3/08 D pp'd 1/20/09,7/24/09,12/4/09 D dismissed 2/5/10 H served me D papers again 9/4/10 D dismissed 9/26/11
Sanderika I think that there is a lot going on on Upside's thread, if you haven't read it.
Hearts Blessing,on Upside's current thread, suggests that we have to behave differently in the latter stages of the MLC than in the early stages. As they move out of the crisis we need to change our behaviour patterns in response. She also suggestd that initiating divorce proceedings is a huge risk. I think I can see that, but I can also fully understand why you did it.
What I have come to see is that MLC is profoundly non-rational, and our 'normal'responses to MLC behaviour are not interpreted in any kind of rational way by the MLCer, but in an emotional way that fits their own interior "thoughtscape".
For example, it seems to you and to me, extremely unreasonable that your H wants to continue a friendship with you but not move into any kind of marital reconciliation. This will not seem like this to him, for any number of reasons.
I am interested in why you, having worked so hard to recreate a friendshp with your h, which he went along with [and not all of them do this] now no longer want this? I think this is a key question.
I agree that ego and pride prevent many of them from returning. That, and fear.
Hi Sanderika, Good to see you have decided to start a thread to give you the support you need at this time. I think what Beatrice has to say is interesting given the situation you and I are both in.
Actually this is Beatrice' thread and I really like her topic so I have been adding my .02 and updates. I will probably find a place to start one for myself very soon.
About the D filing in my sitch:
I was served papers for D by my H on 9/4 and I had 20 days to respond to his complaint.....since he served me he will be the plaintiff and I will be the defendant.....since he had me served and did not file his papers with the county.....I decided to counterclaim his complaint against me (which had already taken place by his service of papers to me) thus the divorce was started in the courts in my state. Regardless of my action, I only had 20 days to reply to his complaint for D against me or I would have been held in contempt of court and I could not risk that, it would have meant I would forfeit a great deal of control financially.
I would love more than anything to fix my marriage. My H has chosen the OW over me and that is the cold hard fact I face everyday. I am not sure what I could do at this point to turn this around myself. Seems to me that it is my H that needs to fix this now. I understand his MLC state. I don't know what to do. I feel so detached from him since this second serving of D papers.
I find I do not want to be his friend out of pain. I am in a great deal of emotional pain. I am very torn..... I do not like or respect his choice and that has me questioning how could we even try and be friends after this horrible ordeal.
If I treat him as well as I did pre-serving (9/4) I feel I am condoning his adulterous affair and giving him the best of both worlds still = CAKE. After being served the second time, I didn't feel this was a battle I belonged in anymore. I want the cake-eating to stop!
If I treat him kind but not overly so and no contact from me...I am sending him the signal that I am not happy with his choice but am accepting it by leaving him alone and am moving on with my life. Leaving him to his life with his OW. In my H's eyes he will think I like him just fine and am his friend (I know him and so I know I am right).
Either choice is a lose - lose for me. H will not leave his OW. H doesn't want to fully commit to our marriage. That leaves me in the cold on both counts.
I am following along with Upside's sitch very closely. It was her H who filed at the urging of Upside and now that he did so he doesn't want the D. A D was something he had previously told Upside he wanted which is why she told him to just go and do it. This is a situation that has mirrored much of my own.
I had a H who filed in 2008 and then could not go through with it, then to only have me served a 2nd time. I fought the good fight right up until 9/4/10. I actually told him my preferences and professed my love to him amongst many other things. He knows where I stand. For me to file in the manner I have is more giving him what he stated he wanted like Upside's husband.
If my H doesn't want this he will not be bashful. I will hear about it sooner or later.....
Cas, I actually wrote you a lengthy response to your latest thread only to lose the whole thing. I have a lot of opinion about your sitch. I will get back there and share my opinion.
I am doing better but not that well. I feel like a fish out of water. I am still very emotional and cry all of a sudden like I have no reason.....
This is kind of a rambling mess....sorry.
Take extra care you two, I love having you to chat with.
Sanderika
ME48/H48MLC T 33y M 28y S16 OW 8/7/05 Bomb 8/16/05 Sep 9/05 H f'd D 10/3/08 D pp'd 1/20/09,7/24/09,12/4/09 D dismissed 2/5/10 H served me D papers again 9/4/10 D dismissed 9/26/11
Don't forget guilt as being a factor in not being able to come back. Some feel they have done too much damage to come back.
I had an affair and was almost a WAH but I broke it off completely and came back. I couldn't break up my family, couldn't do that to the kids and I knew it was wrong.
After the withdrawal period, I found myself so in love with my wife. It seemed like the blinders just came off. I could see her now, her qualities and value.
Committing adultery destroys one's soul. Afterward I was hit with depression, remorse, regret, hopelessness, guilt, fear and anxiety. I lost weight, couldn't sleep.
These are the consequences of adultery. God help your husbands when they realize this.
Tulsa, thanks for sharing your perspective. It's great to be able to read the thoughts of someone who's been there. I am sure my H has experienced the depression, remorse, regret etc and I'm also sure that guilt is a huge factor for H. He has expressed that he has done too much damage and that he feels nobody would want to see him or talk to him because of the damage he's caused.
Your thoughts are very interesting and I'd love to hear more of your perspective when you have time.I'm sure Beatrice and Sanderika will, too! Thanks Tulsa
It helps us (LBS) immeasurably to read the perspective of a man who has been where our H's have been or still are.
I also recognize the guilt in my H when he is in my presence. He has told me things such as: I don't think I could return and I don't see myself coming back. I have always wondered if it was his guilt or his pride and saving of face that is holding him back.
My H has been having an affair for 5 years. It makes it more of a relationship now not an affair. I wonder if he can come back......Only God can help us now....
I would love to converse more with you as well, please help us.
I would like to know how to treat him now. I would like to say or do something that would really make sense to him and open his eyes. BTW, my H is still in a MLC state, replay I assume. He is one who may never come back.....Maybe you do not believe that is possible. Maybe you think that at some point they do come out of it.
Thank you Tulsa, any help you can give us would be greatly appreciated.
Sanderika
ME48/H48MLC T 33y M 28y S16 OW 8/7/05 Bomb 8/16/05 Sep 9/05 H f'd D 10/3/08 D pp'd 1/20/09,7/24/09,12/4/09 D dismissed 2/5/10 H served me D papers again 9/4/10 D dismissed 9/26/11
Forgive me if you've stated this before, but do you believe when you had your affair you were going through MLC or were you a WAH? IMHO they are two different things.
Do you believe your W is experiencing a MLC possibly triggered by your A?
Beatrice, sorry for the hi-jack. My curiosity sometimes gets the better of me.
