Thanks Freema for the women's perspective. Much appreciated. I went out on a limb and asked if she wanted to do dinner next week and she said yes. I'm going to be happy happy as you said and have no talk about us. She'll be moving back home with her parents in the mean time after that and then I'll pull back and give her some space hopefully with a positive memory of us just being friendly together. Won't pursue after that and will mirror her and take her lead and be understanding and supportive yet firm. We'll see what happens...
Will figure out how to lead more. Tough balance that I don't know. I asked her out to dinner. I'm making the plans. That's leading. When I pull back - she starts being more talkative. She wants space. Gut tells me not to pursue as it's perceived as overwhelming/overbearing. How do I pull back and lead?
lol. I just got it last week. just finished DBing and so many of the stories in there are exactly how my M broke down. I wish my W would just see that. reading Hold onto your N.U.T.S right now. NMMNG is next on my list. thx
Will figure out how to lead more. Tough balance that I don't know. I asked her out to dinner. I'm making the plans. That's leading. When I pull back - she starts being more talkative. She wants space. Gut tells me not to pursue as it's perceived as overwhelming/overbearing. How do I pull back and lead?
Asking her out to dinner will either be seen as leading or as pursuing. The sad thing is this - it all depends on the perspective of the WAS and how they interpret your actions plus your intention - sometimes your mind will hide pursuing behind 'leading' and you will be convinced you are leading when in fact you are pursuing. Your mind can hide it from you but it will permeate out of you and be seen by your W.
When you pull back she will become more interested. Nobody can chase something that isn't moving away. You can see the begging, pleading, gifts, poems, cards, calling - pursuing, doesn't work.
She needs to get back the respect for you. When a woman loses respect, she loses the security she wants to feel. They can then walk away.
Originally Posted By: bklynt
How do I pull back and lead?
When you make decisions, draw boundaries and enforce them, take action, based on what YOU want with no regard to what effect it will have on your W or your sitch or anyone else, then you are leading.
Now it begs the question. Well if my impulse is to tell her how much I love her, to keep asking her out, to keep taking her temperature - this must be what I want. So, to follow what 'I want' means to do these things.
But when we look further in - all of these things are not really what you want. What you want is to be a strong, confident, independent person who is healthy and does NEED anyone or anything in order to be happy.
That's what you want.
Pursuing her and doing all the things your fear is telling you to do won't get you what you want. That's why this stuff is counter intuitive. Everyone who walks into this place, as well as their spouses, are unhealthy and have issues which plague them to a point a R gets destroyed.
You are here now, so your thinking and your 'heart' will tell you things. Those things are based on your unhealthy and issue filled life paradigm. This is why it is a 180 to do the opposite of what you think you should do. Those actions are in direct opposition to the thinking, feeling and acting which got you here.
This is why you work on yourself. That's the focus and that's where yours needs to be. Not on her, not on the sitch, but you.
When you do what is HEALTHY for you to do regardless of what may happen, you are leading. You are leading your life. This is what is confident building. This is what will make you the man you want to be. A woman will be attracted to that and will respect that.
Since I've drawn boundaries and enforced them my W has no choice but to respect me. That is happening. She may hate me, but she will respect me. I can't demand respect, and can't force someone to respect me, but I can COMMAND respect by holding my ground in which I respect myself and this means not tolerating disrespect from other people. The less I tolerate it, the more respect I get. People cannot respect you if you don't respect yourself.
You must grow.
MySitch Me-47 STBXW-41 D-5 S-8 ILYBNILWY-01/08 Want a D- 01/09 Physical Sep-01/10 D filed-06/10 Got 50% custody=09/11 Ride that wave!
I read NMMNG in a day. There was lots that resonated in the book and I'm going to read it again and start doing the tasks. It just so happened there was a support group today in my area which I went to which is something I normally wouldn't do but was good to go outside my comfort zone. Lots to work on. Someone else had recommended it originally but thx for the reinforcement.
I've played tons of mind debates with myself on asking her to dinner on whether it was the right thing or not. She demonstrated second guessing about asking for a separation but wasn't sure about her feelings. The feelings / actions / and thoughts that led to our separation would not have asked her out and would have passively / passive aggressively sat back and waited for things to get better. In a sense this is a 180 from that but I realize and question whether or not I am using that to justify asking her out. I did do every single thing it says not to in the LRT initially after our separation. This time doesn't feel desperate. Whether it's right or not, I don't know. But I am calmer (momentarily potentially) then I have been in awhile.
Ultimately I am looking at this as the scientific method. If she shuts down - I pull way back. If it goes well - I pull back a little less. I know from DBing not to pursue and from NMMNG not to seek any kind of reassurance. No talk of us. No talk of the future.
I would like to find some way to set a boundary or boundaries if possible but am having a difficult time coming up with some. Thinking on that one. Even small steps / boundaries to start. Anybody got any ones they started out with?
Sounds like the NMMNG hit home. It did for me as well. You will love N.U.T.s.
Too much insecurity right now on your part asking her to dinner. So I recommend you do not. Highly likely it will be viewed as pursuing. It sucks but you need to wait it out for awhile.
When I got done reading that book I felt like a new man, not that I was better, but I knew what the hell was going on. An awareness. It was like I wanted to run to my W and tell and show her all I learned kind of thing.
Take some time and follow the Do and Dont list and get your mindset right. This allows you to give her space and time. It also allows you to take in this knowledge and apply the changes.
Good to see you met up with some of the NMMNG guys. I drove down to NJ last Sunday and hung out with that group for a few hours. It was a really good experience for me. I'll definitely be doing it again.
Glad to see you feel calmer. It's a roller coaster ride. I can't tell you if the dinner thing was a good decision or bad one. I don't think anyone really can. I feel as long as you aren't pursuing when she doesn't want to be pursued then it's fine. It's determining that which is the problem.
You'll know where it's coming from when you get ready to go out with her and you're there. If you don't have an investment on how things go then you'll be good to go. But there will be a part of you that wants it to go great(Who wouldn't). Just make sure you're not in a mindset of somehow 'doing something' to impress her. Don't talk about your changes at all. Never talk about them. Let your actions speak for themselves.
I think a mistake made here too often is being too passive in the sitch. I know it's a mistake I made and if I could do it all over again I would have approached it a lot differently.
Look at everything as an event. If you guys go out to dinner and have a great time, it's just an event at that point in time. Don't take it and somehow project it forward as a foreshadowing of things to come. Same thing if it doesn't go well. Single events rarely make or break a situation.
On the boundaries thing - you may not need any at all. If you're being disrespected or treated like a doormat then you need to set boundaries to protect yourself from that behavior.
The boundaries are to keep yourself in a healthy state and to protect yourself. If she isn't crossing into you and abusing you then no boundaries are needed. It's that simple. If there is an OM then a boundary is needed. That's disrespectful behavior toward you. Setting a boundary in this case will show you have enough self respect and confidence in yourself you will not tolerate anyone treating you that way.
We'll see if anyone else wants to chime in on this.
MySitch Me-47 STBXW-41 D-5 S-8 ILYBNILWY-01/08 Want a D- 01/09 Physical Sep-01/10 D filed-06/10 Got 50% custody=09/11 Ride that wave!
