Thought it was time to start a new thread. Things are changing in my situation but I'm not quite certain what those changes are and what it will mean for the future.
After GAL a lot for the past several days (keeping myself busy during the bombaversary, wedding anniversary, and birthday) I finally have some time to post. My thoughts have been all over the place, as reflected in my posts of the past week. This post is REALLY long! So sorry. It helps to thought process to get this all down.
Here’s what has been happening:
I had been dim with XH since he e-mailed me on 9/3 "Going to the fair this afternoon/evening…with BMF! We haven't spoken eyeball to eyeball in 3.5 months. We have agreed to meet and chat about our differences…..hope that goes well.”
I was angry for two reasons: (1) BMF is a VERY bad influence on XH. (For those of you tuning in late, BMF of 30 years is a narcissist and blocks intimacy in all of XH's Rs with women.) XH started reconnecting with me ONLY after he and BMF split in May, and (2) XH never once tried to "chat about OUR differences" before he steamrolled me into a D. It hurt......... and made me think that XH would never understand that a M or other committed R can't work with a 3rd party in the middle………..
XH texted me at midnight Saturday (4 days ago) to invite me to play table tennis with him. (Interesting that he was thinking about me at midnight.) Two days ago he e-mailed me “BMF and I have mended fences but the "elephant in the room" has not been addressed…..yet to be done.” We played table tennis tonight so this was the first time I’ve spoken face-to-face with XH since the 9/3 “BMF and I are making up” e-mail 2 paragraphs above.
When I got to the community center, XH had arrived a couple minutes earlier. He was a lot like the H I used to know, except he seemed a little subdued. It was very relaxed, easy, and friendly…….just like playing table tennis with a good friend. We chatted while we played. XH told me he is seriously thinking about scheduling knee replacement surgery in the next 1-2 months. He has a consultation with a surgeon this Friday. We talked about pros and cons. I reminded him about my experience following surgery for a broken ankle in 2002 (I was living alone. It was REALLY hard. This experience is what motivated me to begin seriously looking for someone to share my life with.)
As we walked out to our cars I asked XH if he was going to wish me a “Happy Birthday”? He looked genuinely surprised, kind of flummoxed, and said that he had totally forgotten (based on his response, I believe him). He said he was very sorry that he had forgotten, said he wondered why his sister hadn’t reminded him, and that he would make it up to me.
We talked about his mother’s health. When I visited 2 weeks ago she had a “Do Not Resuscitate” wristband on (remaining from her hospitalization earlier in the week). I asked XH if this was a new order. He said yes, that it was. I said “That must have been a difficult decision for you.” He said that it was and it reminded him of when his family had to make the decision to take his twin sister off life support after a car accident when they were both 27 years old……so his mother’s repeated hospitalizations undoubtedly remind XH of his twin sister’s sudden death. He and twin sister were VERY close.
Finally, I took the opportunity to turn the convo to ask “Did you and BMF resolve your disagreement?” To which he said “BMF and I have mended fences but the "elephant in the room" has not been addressed. We have to talk about this. We are getting together tomorrow night and I have insisted that we talk about it then. If we can’t resolve this then, then our it’s over”. I asked XH “What is the elephant in the room (the cause of their rift)?” He said “My R with BMF’s XW”. I said “What kind of R? Are you having a romantic R with BMF’s XW?” ………To this, XH just about choked and said “NO!!! What makes you think that? I’ve always had a friendship with BMF’s XW!” (XH has always maintained a friendship with BMF’s XW. They are kinda like brother and sister. She is not XH’s type. Based on XH’s reaction I really believe what he said…………It’s interesting, because this was one of the possibilities I had considered because she texts XH a lot). I said “I didn’t know what kind of R you were referring to. You’ve always been friends with BMF’s XW! Why would BMF care now?” To which XH replied “BMF told me that it always kind of bugged him, that he never said anything about it before, but NOW it DOES matter to him.”
XH really opened up then and started dishing about BMF. XH went on to say that last May when BMF raised this issue with him, XH had told BMF “Grow up!” and that BMF had responded “F*** you!”. They didn’t speak for 3 ˝ months after that until 2 weeks ago. A week after that blow up, XH returned a $1000 deposit check to BMF for a vacation they had planned to take together this summer………so it’s possible that when XH went on vacation last month he wasn’t actually having the fun time that he had hoped to have.
So the lesson to be learned here is that things are not always as they appear to be and it is counterproductive to make assumptions about situations for which you have limited information. This (9/3 email above) is what put me into a tailspin a couple weeks ago…….It may be that God is planning to use XH’s R with BMF to help XH finish a developmental stage????? I have never heard XH refer to BMF as being the immature, narcissistic person that he is. This is new territory.
Another new development is that three days ago I sent e-mail to XH’s sister (X-SIL) and mentioned I had visited their mother after she was discharged from hospital 2 weeks ago. Early the next morning she replied: “GAG, You said the last time you visited our mother was after she was "discharged from the hospital"? Was she in the hospital recently??!!!!???”. I replied to X-SIL: “Didn’t Mr. GAG tell you that your mother was in the hospital for a few nights while you were on vacation in CO two weeks ago? He asked me not to mention it to you that week because he didn’t want to spoil your vacation and it didn’t sound like it was anything very severe. I just assumed he would tell you after you returned home. I’m surprised he didn’t……….” I haven’t asked you this before because I didn’t want to put you into an awkward position..............but may I ask “How do you think Mr. GAG is doing?” He has been like a different person since he slipped into a depression at the start of 2008 (~6 months before he left). Initially he was agitated and irritable (men express depression this way) but was (and continues to be) secretive and wouldn’t talk about what he was thinking to me. I think his omission in telling you about your mother’s hospitalization and his “break-up” with his BMF are part of this behavior pattern for him. GAG”
…….So I took the opportunity presented by XH’s cognitive lapse to ask X-SIL her perspective about XH’s mental functioning. I’ve only broached this topic with her once before in the past 2 years. She hasn’t replied yet, but did try to phone me on my birthday yesterday and sang “Happy Birthday” on my VM. Maybe I will try to call her back tomorrow.
Sorry this has been so long. It helps to put it all down.
In summary, my sense from the events of the past few days is that XH is REALLY in a pea soup fog. He was always VERY organized,….almost bordering on OCD……….so not remembering my birthday is VERY unusual………and he is experiencing a lot of big, emotional events. My attitude toward him has softened after seeing how decompensated he is, but I feel that I have reached a new level of detachment. I will continue to be a friend, but I don’t think I will be DB’ing as actively as I have in the past.
GAG
Last edited by goodattitudegirl; 09/16/1004:26 AM.
Oh.....and I forgot to say.......don't think the XH that I saw this evening would be capable of maintaining any kind of serious romantic R with a new OW. He is too absent-minded and pre-occupied with his mother's illness and R with BMF.....and with the kind of knee and low back pain he is having, the options for $ex are pretty limited (based on our experience before and after H/XH's knee arthroscopy). He acted like he thought he could share some vulnerability with me (when he opened up about BMF).
Hi GAG, very interesting, some new developments and also some new observations as to XH's current state of mind. That's progress that XH opened up a bit and talked about his grievances with his BBF.
Quote:
My attitude toward him has softened after seeing how decompensated he is, but I feel that I have reached a new level of detachment. I will continue to be a friend, but I don’t think I will be DB’ing as actively as I have in the past
sounds good
M53 H54 D17 M33Y T38Y Bomb OW 09/09 OUT 10/09 BACK 11/09 OUT 01/10 WANTS TO R 04/10 BACK with OW 05/10 Wants to Reconcile 05/11 I said NO
Just the male perspective here. I will speak from my own experience. I have friends that go back to grade school and I still keep in touch.
That being said I can tell you that my friends all had something to say about my W and my sitch. And for a long time it mattered very much to me what their perceptions were of me and W.
When I began to grow after coming here I began to see my relationships in a new way.
It was knowing myself that allowed that to happen. I found I had to draw boundaries with some of my "perpetually stuck in adult male adolescent" friends. We are still friends but I don't let myself be caught up in that state of mind any longer.
My point is when you grow you change and maybe he is looking at this friendship for what it really brings to him.
You realize just as you can sacrifice yourself to a M you can also do that with frienships and you remain stuck just the same.
Just my thoughts...
My goal is to some day be the person my dog thinks I am
I really appreciated your post and your masculine perspective. Thank you very much! Had it not been for all of you wonderful men on this board I think it would have been easy to adopt a "women vs. men" mentality in response to the situations we are facing.........but I never entertained that oppositional attitude because of men like you and others (I hope you know who you are ) who hang out here.
Originally Posted By: Truegritter
When I began to grow after coming here I began to see my relationships in a new way.
Grit, do you remember what it was that allowed you to see the impact of your "perpetually adolescent" friends on your R with W?
Originally Posted By: Truegritter
We are still friends but I don't let myself be caught up in that state of mind any longer.
Has the nature of these friendships changed with this realization? Do you spend less time with these friends? Are you able to have conversations with them about things that you really care about? Just wondering what this might look like. I want to be able to recognize what mature male Rs look like in the future. It wasn't until at least a couple years after I met H/XH that I realized how immature his BMF was.
Originally Posted By: Truegritter
My point is when you grow you change and maybe he is looking at this friendship for what it really brings to him.
XH invited me to play table tennis with him again next Wednesday, so maybe I'll get more insights then......For a couple minutes last night I saw behind his mask. He let down his guard with me. I don't remember ever seeing him so unguarded before.
Mila, thanks for stopping by. Always good to see you!
do you remember what it was that allowed you to see the impact of your "perpetually adolescent" friends on your R with W?
Guys tend to try to help eachother by fixing. No surprise there. I found that for all their advice most of them really had no perspective. Most of them looked in and said "Man I wouldn't put up with that crap" or "she is not going to make you happy." "I don't have faith you will ever be happy with that." Defeatist stuff like that.
Being my friends I put faith in their opinions and advice. I realized none of them could ever know really. And I saw once the trauma of my own situation was under control, that their own lives and choices would not be what I aspire to have. I could see dysfunction everywhere where I had not before.
Not judging. Just clarity and faith in myself and my ability to make the right choices for me and the courage to follow those choices through.
It was the waking up of myself that brought this awareness.
Originally Posted By: GAG
Do you spend less time with these friends? Are you able to have conversations with them about things that you really care about?
I do spend less time doing things with them that do not serve me. Happy hours. Parties etc. where I know the environment and purpose does not fulfill me. I still talk when my friends want to talk about anything. When they bring it up. They don't talk about my sitch really and I am happy to tell them what is going on but those conversations once I stated my position became very short ones because they just don't have the capacity to understand.
So I still spend time with them but it is on my terms and that is sort of the unspoken thing. I get invited to things and they are not offended if I don't come. I guess now that I think about it I have drawn boundaries. My life, and my W and what what is going on- is mine. It is not a democracy or open for debate and they know that and respect it now. Before it was more an open season. Advice etc given all in the name of concern and caring-but I was not aware enough of my SELF to process all that information.
It only added to my own self-doubt.
At some point you have to understand yourself. Step out of the pack. That is hard for men I think. Their relationships are escapes really because you are always on the cursery level. We don't go deep usually. The things we do are by design to escape really. Watch football together, grab a beer etc. We are not very well equipped to help eachother in the life department until we grow up.
Unfortunately, as I have said before, it often takes tragedy to start the growing process.
And that scare the sh!t out of men. Becuase all we want to do is fix it.
GAG I wouldn't look too much at him and try to analyze what's going on.
Don't worry about others influence on him. He has to figure it out on his own. And if he doesn't, well, you've already been there and you don't want to go back.
So if the new man ever shows up you will know it for sure GAG. It won't be because he divorced one of his friends.
Hope that helps...
My goal is to some day be the person my dog thinks I am
I will continue to be a friend, but I don’t think I will be DB’ing as actively as I have in the past.
Not sure what that means, as Db'ing is a way of life. Do what works. Live your own life, detach. What exactly is it that you are NOT going to do anymore?
I am not sure exactly what has changed with your XH, he is still in the tunnel just where is still to be determined.
I think my point is, you have not stopped DB'ing, maybe just changing your focus.
The focus should continue to be on you, that IS DB'ing.
Been reading your new thread, and True's responses, and it has brought forth some thoughts of my own. From a woman's perspective, I have friends that I have had since grade school. We are still close, have lunchs all together, even went on a cruise together. My husband, a loner, never understood my need for friends. He always assumed they were giving me advice against him for some reason. He has sent several emails to me saying " You are listening to your friends like always."
My meaning is, if what True says is fact for most men, I am not dependent on my friends opinions, and if I got back together with my H, it would by my decision, not theirs. Some may not like it, but would respect my decision.
BTW, congratulations on your new level of detachment. I know what you are saying, but will miss your input. Don't be a stranger!
) who hang out here. 
I'm beginning to forget what the real H used ot be like.