I'm with you, Coach. I am guessing there is confirmation bias working in overdrive here. Goodness knows John sees what he wants to see when he reads what the more experienced folks here write in their responses to his posts. Heck, it could have been something the poor C said weeks ago for all we know.
Yes, and I know it's rude to post as if he isn't ever here to read my post
M-47,W-40,No kids D-filed 5/27/2010 Piecing - 10/21/2010 -=Soon to be banned=-
I don't know how to phrase it correctly. The C said that I needed to let go (like others here) and not be her friend (detach as everyone here has said). But, she cautioned me that doing so in a way that seemed cold could be construed as hateful if my intentions weren't in the right place. My W has serious issues with being alone, lonely and feeling unwanted by me. The MC said I needed to "lovingly remove myself" from the situation.
She advised me that if my W came back to me complaining about how unfriendly and cold I was that I would have some ground to stand on after my invitation. "I'm sorry you feel that way, W. But the last time we had a heart to heart, I invited you to come back into this R and M. You chose not to of your own free will. So, I have to move on without you. I will not invite you again. I will not wait anymore. I am choosing to remove you from my life as much as I can."
I had to be doing this for me, and not for her (exactly what you all have said).
I'm hearing it here and from the MC.
She suggested I invite her only to go along for this "self-healing" ride, because up until now I've pressured her into coming with me. She said she didn't expect a different reaction based on my W's behavior over the past few days, but that I needed to offer it because that would be "it" and would give me closure before going dark and detaching.
So I'm doing just that. I invited her one last time. She declined. I have accepted that. I must move past it. I knew she would say no, but the MC said I should do it so I had a leg to stand on should she come back and play puppeteer. I think it was as much for my benefit as it was for my W.
Maybe the MC was way off base. I don't know. My judgement is so screwed up right now. It seemed like a good idea at the time.
Last edited by john28; 09/16/1011:30 PM.
----"Et tu, Brute?"---- me:28 W:24 S4 T:6 M:4 EA Exposed: 5/21/10 Bomb: 6/20/10 (Father's Day) NC w/ OM: 7/10/10 W moved out 8/21/10 http://bit.ly/aOrZne - My sitch
THen John are you saying this is it? you are going to do what many of the vets here have said going forward? I hope you can do it, I really do, but a lot of your posts are becoming redundant to some extent.
Your W was unable to tolerate 48 hours of Retro. She mocked the entire process from what you posted because she was writing things like a spoiled child would. She felt pressured being asked to go to Retro and said you forced her to go. How is inviting her back to the R any different?
Your C is not listening to you. If she is she is simply suggesting you do more of the same that did not work the first time.
Your W couldn't do 48 hours - she certainly was not going to do an entire R.
Going dark and detaching are for you - your W has to feel the natural consequences of her actions. Your C is suggesting you can control how your W feels or at the very least you should try. Being mindful is one thing - inviting her back in the R so you have "insurance" for a future conversation is something way different.
Closure does not come with one action or conversation. It is a process that takes years and a total shift in thinking and behavior patterns.
If your W has a fear of being alone that is her issue to own and work on. Your W certainly was not very thoughtful of your fear of being cheated on when she was cheating, was she?
Her being left alone by you is a fear only she can work on. It will only "count" when she realizes it on her own, works on it by herself and understands how SHE contributes to that problem.
When something seems like a "good idea" regarding your W, wait at least 48 hours before you even think about executing it. Your emotions control you way too much.
Your C and healing is not for the benefit of your W. It is for YOU. Odd a C would say otherwise.
Find a new C. Any C that suggests you invited an emotionally abusive and manipulative person back in a R w/o any work or effort is off their rocker.
How do you really know what the C has been told?
I respond based on the information that is posted. John said he had given his C the rundown of the past week. So I guess I don't know what the C was *really* told since I was not there. I know what I read in the post though.
Closure does not come with one action or conversation
True. You have to let go. That takes deciding to do it, and then some time to detach and shift your perspective back to the present and future, and when you look back, you don't think about the danged bad relationship.
Quote:
It is a process that takes years
Sometimes yes, sometimes only weeks. Depends on YOU.
Last edited by TimeHeals; 09/17/1012:10 AM.
M-47,W-40,No kids D-filed 5/27/2010 Piecing - 10/21/2010 -=Soon to be banned=-
It's not always so much about the R all the time. It is about the terrible aftermath that one is often left to deal. And you can argue all you want but sometimes that is NOT within reach to change in a day, week or even a year. It doesn't mean you can't adapt and do the best you can within a certain set of circumstances of course.
Clearly it's a personal thing but IMO I think many divorced (or going through a divorce) people don't just have to deal with the R ending but the actual process of a divorce. And that is different for everybody for different reasons.
Bringing this back to John though - he is trying to get closure by one single action and every single action he tries involves his W. To be honest, both C's I see (one is a health crises C so I am not sure she "counts") don't believe closure exists. If it does exist though it's something the individual must find on their own and not rely on anybody to "give" it to them.
Seeking closure via another person is a desperate act to feel better and it will backfire every time.
John - get a separation agreement in place. Why have you not done that yet?
Seeking closure via another person is a desperate act to feel better and it will backfire every time.
I agree with this wholeheartedly.
Closure comes when it does, and nobody and no conversation with another person is going to give it to you. When you're done, you're just done.
I have given up predicting how long it takes to get to "done" in my own life. I have had short relationships where closure took longer to come than the length of the relationship. I have had long relationships where I was close to done before the relationship even ended, so weeks later, I was fine.
My conclusion is that it depends on what crap you have to work out and learn from so that you stop looking back and reliving all of the crappy feelings.
Last edited by TimeHeals; 09/17/1012:56 AM.
M-47,W-40,No kids D-filed 5/27/2010 Piecing - 10/21/2010 -=Soon to be banned=-
Holy crap I just read this whole thread and ate an entire frozen pizza.
I feel like a fatty, but I gotta say John, this stuff resonated with me a bit, because my wife and I did this dance also.
We just wouldn't get the hell away from each other (mostly because I pursued) and we tore each other apart with hurt for close to 5 months.
We wouldnt talk for a week, then I would ask her out, we would go out, have fun, come home, have sex and I would get all excited cause I thought we were getting back together.
I would flip out for a few days then bring up the only boundary I ever really had during our separation... That was if she was going to spend "time" with me, she could not spend "time" with any other guys.
THREE TIMES she told me "ok, forget it then". THREE TIMES!
Each time it tore my heart out a little more.
After the second time, I went totally dark for about 3 weeks. That was the longest we had gone without talking to each other in almost 9 years.
She called after three weeks, and told me she wanted to "try" to work on the marriage. I was very happy to hear this, but hesitant.
Then bomb #2 dropped.
she told me she was "seeing" a friend of mine.
I flipped.
Anger. Hurt.
It was something. It was OVERWHELMING.
But, even then I was willing to try. I invited her over to talk.
She came over, and was cold as h3ll towards me, and basically told me flat out "I was just upset that night, and I dont wanna work on this marriage and I'm not gonna stop seeing anyone I want to see."
That was it dude. My heart couldn't take anymore. I literally drank and cried for three straight days with a close friend.
That was the lowest point in my life... Those three days.
And dont get me wrong... I was dating, I was sleeping around, I was doing all the same hurtful things to her that she was to me... But it was just cover. It was just to make her jealous. It wasnt real.
The only difference between her and I was that up until then I was still telling her I would like to give us a shot...
But then I realized something.
There was NO WAY her and I could continue to do this crazy hurtful dance. There was no way it could work like this.
We HAD to just get the f@#k away from each other.
It was over, and I accepted it.
This is the key here, I guess... I ACCEPTED it was over. I didnt like it, and I didnt want it, but it was what it was. It.Was.Over.
I moved on. It was hard at first... Not talking to her, not seeing her every few weeks and not having her in my bed every once in awhile... But, to be honest that wasnt very cool either, because I knew it wasnt real... She wasnt really wanting to be with me. I was just a "fix" for her, and she was just a "fix" for me.
Fast forward almost 3 months with absolutely no contact whatsoever.
I have a girlfriend I very much like.
Said girlfriend is putting some pressure on me to divorce my wife so she will feel more comfortable in our relationship. Seeing as how me and my wife dont even speak anymore, whats the holdup?
She was right, and I finally broke down and texted my wife to say hello, and ask if we could get the divorce going.
And then, we talked, for 4 hours. About everything. Calmly, without anger or hurt.
She asked me out to a movie. My wife hadnt asked me to do ANYTHING with her in over 8 months.
I accepted.
I dumped my girlfriend.
And here I am about a month or so later, and my wife and I are heavily dating each other, and we are absolutely reconnecting and falling back in love in a way that I cant even describe. There is no more anger. There is still hurt, but we are able to talk about our hurt WITHOUT the anger that used to come with it.
Holy damn! I just wrote out my entire damn sitch!
John, my point in all this rambling is this... You have to get away from this situation, as completely as humanly possible before you and her tear each other apart and do so much damage that there WILL be no chance of reconciliation.
My wife and I would not be where we are today if we did NOT get away from each other and take time to heal, reflect, grow and appreciate what we had.
Man, I hope this made sense, and I'm sorry for the INCREDIBLY long post.
