Not sure where to start or end, WAW - #2

[CityGirl]

See, that is why "laying down" certain line items in anger (going to see an attny or demanding your W get a job) pan out to mean jack crap. You allowed your emotions to rule you (as you often do) and your W is very familiar with your patterns so she knew exactly how to finagle the situation in her favor.

In 24 hours there were explosive arguments, empty threats, a fake suicide attempt, the kidnapping of your son, the request for a weapon, Retro, an "agreement" and sex.

Your W tagged you. Women are masterful at using sex to keep a man where they want him to be ESPECIALLY after they dumped you. You don't see any men here talking about how they used sex to get their W's to do what they wanted, do you? That is because men don't do that. Women do though. But "tagging" has been discussed at length around here.

Letting go and detaching are a state of mind. You talking and posting about letting go and detaching are a clear indicator you are not even close to either. That's fine, we all do things on our own timeline but don't fool yourself that "feelings of love" were found after the craziness of what you posted that just so happened to end in sex.

It is frustrating because you don't listen. You came to this agreement over the weekend and the attny should have been the first person you called on Monday. Now it's Wed. afternoon and your W is already making noise about her lack of money which will be her catalyst to demand a new agreement. Had you gone dark and not chatted w/her on the phone you would have at least given yourself more than 2 days to get your bearings, wise up on the legal/financial front and at least decide if you are ready to get on the path to healing.

No judge in their right mind is going to allow a SAHM w/o an education to be 600.00 short per month in the interim of a permanent agreement. You had a very small window to get something in writing before she had time to think too much and you blew it.

Your W thrives on drama and is more than happy (and quite skillful) at sucking you in each time. You are mistaken drama for love and "attraction". She is "attracted" to you because you are her puppet and she thinks its' fun to watch you dance when she gently pulls the string.

It is of little concern to me that you seem to bypass most of the advice women give you but perhaps you should rethink that stance. Especially women who have been through the emotional, financial and legal wringer for years with their WAS. Don't discount massive amounts of combined experience offered to you from forum members from all walks of life because you don't like what you are hearing.

Have you followed up with your dr. about the panic attacks? The dr. and the attny should be the two most important tasks on your "to do" list.

I understand you are sad and hurt but do not allow your emotional pain to lead you to continued foolish and reckless choices.

[PMA_Baby!]

Nicely put CG as always. I'm having deja vu from when I read this on Kevin4Dallas's thread. Last year. That's why I told him to read all his thread, but he mostly doesn't see the comparison. I'm not sure why I keep trying...

Oh well. That's the helper in me coming out again. blah...

[pookie69]

Nicely put CG as always. I'm having de ja vu form when I read this on Kevin4Dallas's thread. Last year. That's why I told him to read all his thread, but he mostly doesn't see the comparison. I'm not sure why I keep trying...

Oh well. That's the helper in me coming out again. blah...

It takes two to speak the truth — one to speak and another to hear. Henry David Thoreau

People are speaking to you. Are you listening John?

[CityGirl]

And just so we are clear nobody is coming down on you. At this point though you need to hear things in a direct manner.

I become passionate when I read stories like yours because I have a story like yours. Had I listened I might not have been so emotionally destroyed I became physically ill and was hospitalized multiple times (one of those times was due to my clinical panic disorder that manifested due to stress with my situation so I wasn't talking out of my ass about your panic attacks). Had I listened I might not STILL be dealing with my "H" 36 months later. Had I listened I might not have to wonder if this time around my "H" is even giving me partial truth (LOL! Good one!!).

EVERYBODY would like to see you save your marriage. The only way to do that is to save John first.

[pookie69]

I become passionate when I read stories like yours because I have a story like yours. Had I listened I might not have been so emotionally destroyed I became physically ill and was hospitalized multiple times (one of those times was due to my clinical panic disorder that manifested due to stress with my situation so I wasn't talking out of my ass about your panic attacks).

Just as recently as a few months ago my W was going through similar situation. The anxiety attacks crippled her days at the time. She thought that something more serious may be going on. SHe behaved like bipolar, yelling screaming and knocking things.

She was right in the middle of the walkaway phase, partying drinking and on a total path of self destruction.

I was the cause of her misery. She wanted nothing to do with me. The more I chased, the deeper she sank. There was NOTHING I could say or do except to detach.

Although still in the house I left her to be and started spending time with myself. It was painful to watch and painful to be helpless but with the quick and solid advice from the folks here I managed.

There is no happy ending for me yet, but I am not focusing on the outcome but rather on the process. The process has worked. She is in peace with herself, has stopped medications, drinks moderately again, spends time at home and most importantly we both enjoy our company more than ever.

If we stay together only time will tell, but I would never find out if I don't "let her go".

[john28]

Thanks everyone. I know it must be frustrating on your end to see this sitch and want to virtually reach through the inet to strangle me at times.

I'll take this info to the MC today when I speak to her individually. W won't be there today. She's pro-marriage and wants to see this workout, but the last time we spoke it was "John, I think this separation is best for you guys right now. Your W doesn't want a D. She just can't live like this anymore and D is the only option in her mind. If you want this M to work, you have to give her a different option of her own choosing. What you've been doing isn't an option. Let's work through giving her that, which includes this separation."

I'll come back and post tonight. Going to MC then going home to workout then W is dropping off S4 and picking some stuff up from the house she needs.

And yes, I followed up with the Dr. about my panic attacks. Got an 'emergency' med when I am feeling anxious.

[soleil]

Women do though. But "tagging" has been discussed at length around here.

Someone school me. What is tagging?

EVERYBODY would like to see you save your marriage. The only way to do that is to save John first.

So very true. John, we want you to save yourself and be happy and that wil not happen as long as you are stuck in this vicious cycle with your W.

I know it must be frustrating on your end to see this sitch and want to virtually reach through the inet to strangle me at times.

Where is the "laugh out loud" button. Haha. We do want to see you do better, but we want you to listen to us, too!

John, you need to see your L. More than MC, more than working out, more than anything. Your W sounds very manipulative and the longer you wait, the more ideas she gets in her head as to a D or separation agreement which will undoubtedly, lean in her favor.

Protect yourself. Now.

And because of her levels of "crazy" that you have listed here, I would be VERY careful about what you say to her, how you act, etc. I'm not trying to scare you but you never know someone until you get in this kind of situation and she is apt to pull anything in order to come out on top. Be wary.

I am glad you saw the doc about your panic attacks.

[Dane]

You need to wise up and get with a lawyer before the MC. Protect yourself first, then you can DB on the marriage.
You have a very small window that maybe closed, but DO IT.
What are you waiting for??

This is the advice I was given.
If I had a time machine, I would have gone back and smacked myself for not getting a lawyer immediately.

Wise up John!!
I apologize for the directness.

[soleil]

You need to wise up and get with a lawyer before the MC. Protect yourself first, then you can DB on the marriage.
You have a very small window that maybe closed, but DO IT.
What are you waiting for??

This is the advice I was given.
If I had a time machine, I would have gone back and smacked myself for not getting a lawyer immediately.
Wise up John!!
I apologize for the directness.

I agree. When I read back on my initial posts here, everyone told me to go dark and see a L and I am an idiot for NOT HEEDING ADVICE I RECEIVED. GRR.

One year, a signed greencard, numerous manipulations, atty papers, wasted time, and a random club bl-w job girl later... I should have listened!

Though now I can at least laugh about it (even if just a little bit).

[john28]

OK. Got a L on standby right now. W is asking for 8 years of alimony.... we only were married for 4!!

She said she'd rather take a lesser amount for a longer period of time. I don't want that, and it's pretty much regulation in my state for a marriage lasting less than 5 years that you get 6 months of alimony for every year you were married. I told her that and she thought I was lying or something. Weird.

I had the MC session yesterday with just me. I told her all about the crazy stuff that had been happening. She was bewildered. She thinks both my W and I are off our rocker right now, and I agree. I talked to the MC about W and I being friends and she actually said something I didn't expect. She said that she would advise me not to be friends with her, because she didn't think I could handle it.

She then went into how my W needed to recognize that when she wants a D, she doesn't get to keep the good parts of me and throw away the bad. She throws out everything. I thought that was awesome She was basically saying, "If you continue to be her friend, she'll get just that."

After MC yesterday W came over to drop S off. She asked how MC went. I told her what we talked about - and how if she was going to come back into this R I needed to invite her, and I hadn't done that yet. So, I invited her into the R. She said that she wanted more than anything to move back home, but she couldn't trust me now because of the way I've been "acting" toward her (i.e. - not being super friendly nice guy). I said OK, that's fine, I have invited you back into the R for now only. Then she asked about other things and I told her what the MC said about custody and alimony. She got pretty upset. Apparently by the advice of my MC, she used to think our State handed out every other weekend to poor ol' dad, but she's found from a lot of her clients and lawyer friends that it's moving more towards 50/50 in the cases where there isn't a good reason to keep Dad away. Also, about the alimony basically being 2.5 years for her.

She didn't like that one damn bit. Not one bit. She claimed I was taking everything back we agreed to. Blah blah, insert drama here, blah blah. I told her I wasn't changing everything, but I wanted to sit down again to talk about it because I wasn't happy with the way this was turning out, both Custody wise (we agreed to 65/35 split) and Alimony (couple hundred $ every month). I wasn't happy that she was going to struggle financially and I wasn't happy about the custody arrangement. She started getting emotional at me and started raising her voice. I told her, "Ok. This conversation is over. You need to leave."

She walked out. I told her as she was stomping away, "I will not tolerate you treating me like this in my home. Have a good night." She started yelling again, and I just shut the door and locked it. She started banging on the window and crap, I just ignored her. She peeled out of the driveway and left a huge black skid mark. Then she calls me and leaves me a message that "I'm sorry I peeled out. I didn't mean to. I will help you clean it up." She said that all really nice like nothing happened.

Good GOD I don't understand women!

I've got some time away this weekend to not focus on this crap. My Dad is coming into town tonight and we're playing a golf tournament for the next 3 days together. It will be good to get my mind off of all of this. I'm pretty sore from working out so let's hope I can swing a club half decent