Where does the WAW go

[Kalni]

gucci, no offense meant, but if we were to only listen to those posters that saved their marriage, this place would be very very quiet...

No one can tell someone to stay in a M if they dont want to. Especially when there is abuse involved. I am experiencing in my close environment a R that is VERY abusive, verbally and emotionally and I tell you, it's very hard to support my friend to stay as she wants to, I fight myself every single moment not to tell her to f@ck him and leave.

Doodi, if you feel like you are fighting for you, for your..."life" then maybe things are clear enough, or should be clear enough on what to do. No?

[Bridgestone]

I have not said much because you seemed to be taking AJM's advice and you thought it was working.

From my experience and listening to many sitches over the years on here... There is a drastic difference between a LBS typical angst aover being left.. And abusiveLBS angst over losing control of his/her "Teddy". ( see Patricia evens for that reference).

We are only hearing Doodi's perception of his reaction, but I can say without doubt of reading 1000's of sitches here in three years...she could have been me 6 months prior to the bomb and the subsequent 3 months following.

I agree 100% with Greeks post...

Take that for what ever it is worth to you Doodi.
You might gain some insight by easing my sitch.... or not.

What ever you chose.. You will make the best choice for you and you will find support here.

Peace
Bridge

[Doodi]

Bridge--

I don't think that I've taken one person's advice over anyone else's but AJM does seem to post some long in depth emails and I do see some of his points. I also get alot from Greek. ALOT.

Right now my therapist is here and that would be something I would have to give up if I left. I'm going to take it day by day. H is admitting fault and says he will work on himself so I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt.

My leaving would be a major move. I live in Germany so my leaving would mean moving across the world and that my kids would be immediately ripped from their dad. I know there are issues between H and kids but they are few and far between and I know the kids would miss him. So as for now I'm still here.

And I will definitely be looking at your sitch. Like I've said before I'm open to any and all info I can get.

Smooches,
Doodi

[Greek]

Greek, I am floored that you would take talk of suicide so lightly. Is it control? I don't know. Is it expressing grief? I don't know. Is it serious when you hear it? Abso-friggin'-lutely!! Don't discount that conversation. Please. Having had a family member commit suicide, I feel it is a very sad thing to wait for it to be serious. And to think it's all about you (doodi) so he can control you? Can you be so sure? I can't. And for those reasons I disagree very strongly.

Question for Doodi - has your H ever mentioned suicide before or has it only been since you dropped the bomb? I like Coach's advice to you - if H threatens suicide again, tell his CO.

You are fighting FOR you. And he is not on board in that pursuit, so yeah - you are fighting him, too.

Why is that Greek? Why is he not on board? Could it be because he wasn't asked? Coudld it be because he doesn't see things the same way she does? Could it be because this is sooooo one-sided (from his perspective) because it wasn't communicated before? Could it, Greek? Or is this just that she is right and that is all there is to it? Does she have no responsibility in this but instead he has to change and bend to her wants only? I'm at a loss here Greek. 'Cause that is EXACTLY the mindset that would drive somebody away. In fact, it may be that it drove Doodi away and many of the other WAS' Could it be that way Greek?

AJM ~ would you ask this another way b/c I am just not following the point of your questions. Ask it another way, please.

So you just be a good girl and the M will get better. Pptooey! You've done that and your M has just gotten worse, Doodi.

Bullshit. You weren't a good girl. You were dishonest with yourself, were you not? I'm not picking, as it is better late then never, but pointing out the difference. You weren't honest about what you wanted. Not with yourself at any rate. And if not with you, how on God's green earth could you be with him. Is that fair? Is that being good? Bullshit Greek. Very one-sided and controlling IMHO too.

I can't say if Doodi was dishonest with herself or not - I don't know what her self-talk has been. My guess is more likely she has avoided herself, not lied to herself. But I do know from reading her thread that when she found enough clarity and the nerve to say it, she let her H know. Thus, the struggle.

You have a God given right to be Doodi, and share her with whomever you freely choose.

.

Yep. And didn't you? Or did that not mean anything if you had a past to deal with? Or if the two of you couldn't communicate your needs? Forever is forever or until I don't feel like it anymore? Hmm... Something might be amiss here...

I don't think Doodi has ever said she doesn't "feel like it anymore."

The easy way out is to run away Doodi.

Doodi, I have to disagree. I want you to know that leaving will not be the easy way out. It will be very hard, heartbreaking for you to do. You will be scared, broke, alone, worried about your children and what this means to them, worried about your H and what he will do, embarrassed b/c you'll feel others judge you. No, my friend, leaving is not the easy way out. It is very hard. Staying will be hard, too. There will be the eggshells, the outbursts, living numb, worrying about what your H will do, keeping resentments down, feeling disappointed in yourself, worrying about your children and what this means to them. You don't really have an easy way. So you choose the right thing, Doodi. And you get to decide that.

The be you/don't hide you comment? Know why we were able to agree on that? Because the real you hasn't shown up to the party yet (in your marriage or your life from the sounds of it). Think about that. As you start to change you, it is very normal (from my limited experience admittedly) that you will go from one extreme to the other when it comes to control, taking a stand, etc. Know what that looks like to people that care about you? While you do that, having the compassion to understand that people that care about you will think you've lost your marbles - all at once. But like a kid learning to ride a bike for the first time it will be awkward as you lurch down the street. Or like learning to drive a stick shift after driving an automatic for years. Bumpy and jerky and all over the place at first while you find your balance. Get the feel.

What a difference it makes when the people around you who care are patient with you while you change - and not screaming and yelling at you out of fear. I hope the people around you will be happy to see you grow, and learn, and become - instead of feel threatened by it and their discomfort creating tension and eggshells for you, stomping about and slamming things. I hope you find that kind of support. If you don't Doodi, grow, learn and become anyway.

Or, Doodi, he will be like a lot of others who exhale and say, "Wow, dodged that bullet. She settled and signed on for another twenty. I'm a lucky man. Where's the remote."

Bitter much Greek?

Project much, AJM? Let's get one thing straight - I am a very busy person with a demanding career, I have a lovely, active family and I train for marathons - not much free time. When I choose to spend my time with someone here, I can damn sure tell you I don't trade that time to spread mess. I want to use the issues Coach and I worked through to be a blessing to someone else who could use it. I have no bitterness and even if I did, I wouldn't devote precious time to spreading it around.

Be real, Doodi, and if there is damage, then own it. Forever is a long time to just keep the peace for everyone else's sake. How is that...good? and right? and healthy?

Earlier Greek spoke of God and how he made you. He also talked about how to treat one another and how to hold our tongues. I in no way suggest you don't own the damage you cause. I am however suggesting that you consider limiting that damage by being careful of what you say.

Nope, Doodi --- you say what you need to say. You say the truth. Do not muzzle yourself b/c someone might not like it. Let them deal with that. On the one hand, AJM is telling you that you were wrong all those years for not letting your H know what you were dealing with ... and now he is saying you should monitor what you say so as not to rock the boat/cause damage. You say what you need to say, Doodi. Just make sure it is the truth.

The question that Greek keeps putting out there is if your husband has put a boot on your throat or not. I am reading that is not the case. His changes? How he reacts to you? I completely believe that when he sees you happy and whole, he will be thankful at some point you made the changes and the real Doodi came to the marriage/relationship. It may not be immediately recognized that way. It may not be while you two are still married or for many years. But if he loves you, and I suspect he does based on what you say, he will want you to be happy and whole and will be glad when he sees you are.

Doodi,I hope that you are married to a man who is strong enough, confident enough, secure enough to let you grow, learn and become. I hope that he will be happy to see that happen in your life. I hope that you can grow, learn and become while married to such a strong, confident, secure man, Doodi. Based on what I've read in your thread, your man doesn't sound like he's there yet. But you know better than anyone.

This is not a hallmark life. This is real. Live it like you mean it, certainly, but you need to figure out what that means to you, Doodi. Nobody else. You don't have to pander because you think it will make others happy.

True that.

Doodi ~ there is not a one size fits all answer. Your thread jumped right out at me the moment I read it - not b/c it is identical to our M but b/c I had experiences that connected with yours. Sympathy. Compassion. That's what I bring here - and what I learned through my own experience. What I did may not work for you - but I'll share with you so that you can gather ideas. I trust you to take and leave what you want.

Greek

[TimeHeals]

What a difference it makes when the people around you who care are patient with you while you change - and not screaming and yelling at you out of fear.

I like this. Other than dealing with a crisis like the ocassional need to deal with a hungry tiger that is approaching (or similiar predator), fear more often than not leads to faulty reasoning and serves little purpose other than raising your anxiety levels.

IMO there is more fear than is healthy in our culture, and it's good to get away from it sometimes.

[Doodi]

@Greek--Thank you so much for taking time out of your obviously busy life to help me. You posted early on with me and I'm glad you haven't given up on me. I appreciate and admire your advise/comments not only because you have been,there done that & succeeded...but also because you do get ME.

I do appreciate AJM's posts more because they are more likely to compare to my H and it helps to get the other side--Pinhead, John28 and a few others from the LBS's are helpful as well. His words are just something else for me to look at. Between the posts on here, the books that have been suggested that I've started reading and my IC, I know I will succeed.

@TH--I absolutely agree. Fear is an unfortunate but powerful motivator.

[Greek]

@Greek--Thank you so much for taking time out of your obviously busy life to help me. You posted early on with me and I'm glad you haven't given up on me. I appreciate and admire your advise/comments not only because you have been,there done that & succeeded...but also because you do get ME.

Happy to help
Greek

[kara]

Hey Greek,

Can you check out Dani385? She could use your feedback.

Sorry for the hijack, Doodi.

[Doodi]

Journaling...


Well I put my foot in it today. I total lost all proper train of thought and got into it with H. Here's how it all went down...

H and I had been sitting on the couch watching a movie. It was getting towards the end when the phone rang...it was long distance from my true best friend. I didn't want to disturb him by chatting so I hit record (for me) and went upstairs so I could talk to my friend.

I was upstairs for maybe 5 minutes when H comes in the room and says, "I think its a little weird that you come upstairs to talk on the phone." And then goes to leave. I covered the phone and told him to stop reading into things I only came up because of the movie. He just repeats it again how it's weird. (Here's where I lose it) I say, "So it's ok for you to get phonecalls and go upstairs to talk and I can't?" I proceed to get off the phone and it goes downhill from there.

Yes I know what I should have done...20/20 hindsight. I know I should have validated his insecurities and listened. Instead, I struck back. I know it's wrong what I did. To explain, not excuse, what I was thinking I want to say that I was just trying to explain there was nothing to me going upstairs. That he should have taken a sec and looked at all the times he has done it to me before coming at me. He is always one to say his peace and then walk away and this time I just wanted to get it off my chest.

I know I did it completely wrong and as it got into a yelling match I knew everything was lost. I did apologize for yelling and eventually things were calmer, but damage was done. I've since be thinking, evaluating, rehashing, etc and I've come to realize what I did to him was exactly what I can't stand that he does to me. I kept at him until I broke him down.

Now I know some may come at me ruthlessly for what I did, but I made an honest mistake with more probably to come. Hopefully, not many but I know it's going to get bumpy. I guess I just wanted to put it out there since I know it may seem like I believe I don't do dirt. Well it can't much dirtier than this.

A day in my journey...
Doodi

PS>>>Kara, no stress. Greek is a treasure full of knowledge and needed by all.

[Doodi]

How do you handle this one...

So I started talking to H about one of our son's classes and some things that were said yesterday. Nothing bad, just clearing up something that S had gotten wrong the day before. Well H immediately starts with the "I'm sure I did something wrong!" bit. I said one time that I never said anything of the sort and said nothing else.

Now I'm pretty sure H is upset about it but I don't want to assume anything. I also don't want to ask because our past history, conversations on parenting don't EVER go well. So he goes upstairs and slams the door.

I want so bad to go say something but I don't want it to seem confrontational but I am upset that he's slamming doors now that our kids are upset. I'm just a bundle of nerves and this is the way I feel most of the time. Scared that my saying something will start an argument, but upset that he's being so inconsiderate.

How do I diffuse the situation without it escalating into something more?

Seems simple, but it's the simple things that grow to be big problems.

Doodi