How should I proceed now? Is there hope?

[NotCrackingUp]

HIH

All the DB material about MLC and the runaway spouse seems to say; "don't argue, validate" etc. I found after a while that bearing the brunt of the blame for his A and his walking out was cramping my ability to do my job and be normal 'round my kids. I teach in an inner-city school in what is called a "priority education zone" (politely, an area where many are under the poverty line, more or less recently arrived immigrants and have problems at home). You can't go into a class of 15-year-olds there and not look them in the eye and show you know where you're going.I was going around like a zombie, thinking "I've been stupid and I've ruined my M and driven my H away into the arms of another". I felt inadequate and it was starting to show. Even my own kids don't need a doormat for whom they'll eventually lose respect.

That said, I'm afraid my words will only drive him further away, but as you said, DB or no DB, he's broken up the family and needs to see that he's made the choice, not anyone else. I am sure he's got advice from others, he comes out with stock expressions like "needing time" and "children bouncing back", he did not use them in the past. It's just intuition, but I feel he's prepared his arguments with others. What he says now is directly opposed to what he's said for years. It's like he has a sort of stock speech off by heart and serves up different bits of it according to what I say to him. Doesn't seem to be reasoning on his own, at all. Not like a responsible adult. Tonight, he rang to speak to the eldest, wants to pick her up after school tomorrow and see her with the others. She told him what she usually does: "if you want to see me, come here (our house). I don't want to go to your flat, I want to come home on the schoolbus". He just said "see you so" and hung up. He never tries to tell her he loves her or that he needs to see her, never shows much emotion. I tell her she needs him and he loves her, but she doesn't want to know.Over 12, she decides which parent, and it's me. She is his pride and joy, has many of his traits and he's so proud of her, yet can't get out of his funk long enough to talk to her like a father, reassure her. She blusters and makes light of this, but it's hurting her, she so hopes he'll come back.Just hangs up angrily when she refuses to do what he wants.

I believe he needs to see what he's doing, but arguing or getting angry (well, firm) are maybe not great DBing.

When you say "detaching", on a very practical level, how do you do this? I try to spend the morning (or an hour, a couple of hours) not thinking about the situation. But as soon as I stop working or reading, whatever, I think of him and miss what we used to have. Any good detaching remedies? Good luck, I hope she contacts you soon.
NCU

[kara]

Hi NCU

Just passing through to say "hi". It has been a really long day and I am mentally drained, so not much to add. I think your conversation with your H where you set him straight was actually good.

There was a thread somewhere on here about detaching. I think the best way to do it is to GAL, immerse yourself in your own pursuits, spend time with family and friends, do the things YOU enjoy. As you rediscover yourself, I think it becomes natural to detach and focus less on your M. At least that's what has worked in my case. I also spend a lot of time exercising or at the gym and that has worked wonders for me. Working out requires concentration and living in the moment.

Letting go and letting God also works for me. I acknowledge that I can't control anyone or a particular outcome. I resist placing all my energies on the expectation of a desired outcome and a desired deadline. I realize that I can choose to be happy where I am because there are many things to be thankful for. I refuse to spend another day depressed and in a funk.

I hope that your H gets his act together with respect to his relationship with his children. That is always the most infuriating part to read about.

Keep on the up and up, NCU!

[pearlharbr]

Not really a how to, but this is a great article on why you need to develop detachment.

I agree with kara (Hi kara! Miss you!) about GAL, immersing yourself in your own pursuits and letting go.

I really let go when I realized that I didn't want to be with the person BF had become; if I just met him then I wouldn't give him the time of day. I did not want to spend the rest of my life with someone who would treat his partner so shabbily. I deserve better than that and I decided that I would find someone who treated me with the respect I deserved.

Everyone wants the person their spouse used to be, but that person is gone. Even if you end up reconciling neither one of you will ever be the same person again. So decide what you want your life to look like starting now. Start doing things to make that life a reality. That should take up a lot of time and energy!

[NotCrackingUp]

Thanks Kara and pearlharbr

I'm trying to recapture the person I was before my H became central in my life. I'm realizing that I loved him too much, if that's possible, that I was so happy to be his wife I quite gladly put my own personality on a back-burner, especially since we had children.

I had activities that I enjoyed and which I let slide to fit in with his scedule (frequent absences from home, working in the evenings and weekends and summer holidays). He never asked me to do this, it came naturally, but if it made life easier for him and he appreciated it at first, I think, if I'm to be brutally honest, it eventually made him lose sight of me as a person in my own right. He started to take me for granted, at some stage over the last 2 or 3 years. I must have stopped holding an interest for him.

I am a good mum, our children are polite and calm and balanced (well, lately it's a little different...). But as a wife, I just existed: went to work, brought home a good salary, did housework and cooking,did grocery shopping and was generally around the house like a kind of superior electrical appliance - "efficient, discreet and so quiet, you wouldn't even know it was on!" I didn't impose anything on him: I'd give in to watching what he wanted on the TV - or go read a book, accept when he wasn't in the mood to go out of a Saturday night even if I was, let him carry the day where holiday destinations or cinema trips were concerned... He didn't force me, I just behaved as if he were more important. I now realize that I actually didn't even invest much space in my own house, never stretched out on the couch by the TV, rarely sat out in my own garden. All of this seems to have made me lose interest in his eyes.

Missing him and feeling sad and worried about the outcome have made me a bit lethargic, but I'm coming back to the surface, slowly. I have changes I want to make around the house and garden, so that'll give me lots to do.I also have to take stock of how I contributed -without malice and through loving too much -to the mess we're in. I hate conflict; in my work, relations with difficult teens are often a bit of a power struggle, so I wanted peace and harmony at home. My father used to repeat a phrase that sums it up: "anything for a quiet life!" I avoided disagreeing or showing discontent so as not to "lose" his love, and so brought about what I most feared. I realise that if I'd stood my ground a few times over important things, he'd have had more respect for me as a woman and wouldn't have felt so entitled and available to cheat. When my sister married in Ireland in July 2004, I was matron (!) of honour. My family is not very big, my husband was expected to attend. But because it was high season for him, he refused point blank to go. So I went with the children (7,4 and 1 at the time). I felt rotten being the "old maid at the wedding and being alone to manage 3 small children and try to smile in the photos in my long frock. My family were offended, but I defended my H and his heavy workload. After that, I found myself alone at several family functions here, for the same reason. His nephew's 20th birthday party, his sister's 50th... His own family didn't let on at the time, but found it bad form he didn't turn up. Not to mention functions related to my own activities or work, where I came alone while others brought partners. Then if we did go together to some party or function, he very often headed off to be with pals and did not even keep a place at table for me. I noticed all this, but made excuses for him. If I said anything to him, he'd say "but I can talk to you every day". Even in the street, he'd started to walk several metres ahead of me. To be fair, I often had the youngest by the hand, so walked more slowly.

All these clues are surfacing now, and I realize that I sold myself short in our relationship. This might have been why I put on the weight I've lost again lately. I needed solace but didn't see that. But he was also very loving to me and showed every sign of being happy. He just got used to taking me for granted and I ended up not attracting him anymore (?). I can't tell what processes went on in his mind, but it seems logical: he was sure of me, I didn't keep him on his toes and he just lost interest.


Therefore, I suppose the best way forward is to follow a course that helps me re-invest my life and express my own desires, while distancing myself from him when possible; maybe it works as with kids: they get tired of some toy, you put it away and let them rediscover it a few months (years?) later, and it's like a new toy again, they want it and play with it anew... I've a hell of a journey before he wants me or plays with me again. I'll have to renew myself in every sense.

Pearlharbr, what you say is true; I loved someone, but the individual who goes under that name now, who's been so blaming, high-handed, insensitive, cruel and dishonest bears only a physical resemblance to my love and I wouldn't want to spend much time in his company. I just wonder if the man I loved is still there, like the dark side of the moon.

He came this morning, to collect younger kids and use the computer - doesn't have Internet where he is as yet. Was extra pleasant (I mean, sought me out when I took my coffee into the garden to avoid him, praised what I was doing with my boy (7) as he arrived, offered spontaneously to go halves on a bill he found on the kitchen table-getting him to be fair in the money dept. has been like getting blood from a stone -etc.). Kissed me chastely on arrival, although he'd said he wouldn't any more. I stayed bright and breezy. Don't understand this change, am lucid enough now not to imagine anything really positive. He came back this aft to get something he'd forgotten. My eldest was home, he tried to speak to her but she said "hello" and then went on with homework. That hurts him, but so be it, he let her down.The man who used to grumble about taking me to the station in the morning now makes the same journey twice in one day, can't keep away. He came here on Monday, I left for work and when I got home on Monday eve, I saw he'd been here a good part of the day.
Says he's happy in his flat but I wonder.

So these are my news and reflections today. Just writing it down helps to clarify things in my mind.
NCU

[hurtinhartford]

Hey NCU,

How are doing? I am reading up on your sitch and I hope are beginning to detach as all suggest. My sitch as you can gather has changed quite a bit. In fact my W emailed me Monday night wanting to pursue the D. I agreed about and hour or two later then sought advice here.

I met with a lawyer yesterday and one on Thursday and told my W that I gave them the pre-nup so that they can draw up papers. She then emailed me and asked if Mediation or getting her own L is the best avenue for her to take. I cannot believe that she is still asking for my advice when she wants to D me. So I am contacting mediation L to see which is the best avenue to take.

I guess that I am detached enough because I have been sleeping like a baby since Monday. So all I can say is detach detach detach!!!!!

[Piano]

All these clues are surfacing now, and I realize that I sold myself short in our relationship

Your post made me all choked up because it reminded me that my WH also neglected me. I remember arriving at almost all social occasions on my own (he didn't want to meet up earlier to arrive as a couple - now this is fine from time to time, but 99% of the time it is just weird!), going on holidays on my own with other friends... his excuse was always work, and he WAS busy! But still, they find the time to have affairs don't they? And the thing that helped me remember these thing is you describing how your H always walked a few metres in front of you. Mine too!! I am a slow worker, he is brisk, but still! It's as though I was a nuisance, totally forgettable...

[pearlharbr]

I don't think you loved your H too much, I think you loved yourself too little. And you excused all his crap behavior because you're confrontation-avoidant and he took advantage of it. I think that's human nature--people will take all you give them if it's offered at no cost. (FWIW, both BF and I did that too. Didn't want to rock the boat. Now I speak up immediately when something bothers me and we deal with it then. Because everyone is responsible for his/her own happiness.)

So why are you still allowing him to come and go at the house as he pleases? Because he doesn't have internet and you're still making his life easier? What is life going to look like if you divorce? If that's what he wants then you should show him what that will entail. Set up a custody schedule so he has specific times to be with the children. Then make other plans and leave them to have time together. It will be good for you to be able to have GAL time, good for the children to have time with their father, and good for H to allow him to step up and be a responsible parent.

[hurtinhartford]

NCU,

I agree whole heartedly with pearlharbr!!! Remember you told me that your H admired the OW because she showed strength and courage in her sitch. You are allowing your H to walk all over you. Remember, you have the power! You have a better more prominent position and you make more $$ than he does. Set-up the custody schedule and don't allow him to come and go as he pleases. You are not making yourself more attracted to him! Show your strength and power!! Coach finally had to show me the way. I see now. Please do this for you and your kids. Or I will have to come to France and jerk your H by his nose and give him a what for!

[Piano]

NCU,
I wanted to add that the discussion you had with your H was not bad DBing. I think you showed your H that you have self-respect and can stand up for yourself and draw healthy boundaries.
When we have low self-esteem to begin with, and then we face a rejection as painful as infedelity, our confidence is rocked to the core. Especially if we have put our spouse on a pedestal.
I recommend you read "The Journey from Abandonment to Healing" by Susan Anderson. I think it can help you understand the way you are feeling, and ways of reclaiming YOU in the face of "rejection".
On cultural specifities, my H is of the same nationality as yours. We were in the middle of an international move last Christmas back to my country when he announced the A. I was pregnant with our first child. He waited to "meet his baby" and has now returned to Europe to live with OW.
Go to Ireland to be with family and friends. It will be good for you, I promise!
Also, on Letting Go, time to read as many posts by Gucci Loafer and Robx as you can.
I think you have a very good chance of saving your M, if you look after You and 'drop the rope'.

[Stubborn-Male]

NCU,
I just wanted to add my support for you. Your speech to your H was spot on, lay it out for them as it is.
I feel that I have also 'loved' my wife to much and in the process lost myself, and my needs and wants. You ,like me, now need to find purpose in life and direction. Don't be put off by your age as regards starting again, how do you think I feel at 64?
We all hope that our spouses will see 'sense' and return, unfortunately we can only control our own actions. I would reaffirm what the vets on this forum have told you, work on yourself first. Bon courage!!!