Four and a half years of dbing. We are about to go to drop off our son at the university he is transferring to. Son asked me if he could ask his dad to come and I said yes. Then his Dad asked me not to come. I was flabbergasted.
Dad had apologized for the affairs, for the hurt he has caused. I accepted. I apologized for my part, for being temperamental, for seeming dissatisfied. He did not accept, keeps bringing up all my faults.
I am about to have the big talk to see if we are going to try to make it work. Only problem is, after so many years of holding on, now I am no longer sure that I want him back! I must be nuts considering how hard I have researched and studied and thought and prayed and practiced dbing to want to quit now, when the object of my work is in sight.
Somehow though, now when he is ungenerous in his words or actions I feel disgusted and tired. I do not want to put up with his self-centered pity any longer. I am a person too! He sees nothing but himself and I grow impatient. For example, our 17 1/2 year old daughter doesn't want to visit him or for him to come home. He left when she was 12 1/2 and she was so hurt and traumatized. She struggled in school, she became depressed, she saw me hurt and sad and dealt with that etc. Finally, she is emotionally sore but somewhat better. She says that she may see him someday but she feels too "vulnerable and fragile" to deal with him right now. My husband goes on and on about how I turned her against him. He can't imagine that perhaps he himself created such a hurt in her that she might not care to see him?
I grow weary and really, at this point, don't know that I care whether we divorce or not. All our kids will be gone from the house by next Sept.. I just don't know.
Freema - I don't know your story, but I do know one truth - if after all this time and hard work, he is not kissing your feet and begging to be with you, treating you like a queen - why would you take him back? Really? The damage to the kids has already been done and won't be undone at this point by reuniting. It might even make them more anxious, waiting to find out when it will all fall apart again.
It might be helpful to write out the kind of behavior from him it would take for you to feel totally secure with him - and then compare his current behavior against that list.
KML that is an excellent suggestion. Then when I go into the Big Talk I will have a mental outline of what I need from the relationship! Brilliant. I expected feet kissing too but alot of him still feels that he has been so wronged by my and my temper. I have made it clear that in my opinion my anger was justified in the face of his lying about and engaging in an affair.
And, I have thought about the kids. That's why I've dragged my feet when he has tried to have the talk before. I feel very protective of them. I'm not sure why I'd want him back except that I have a hope that if we all go to counseling and earnestly try to rebuild our family, that we can forgive each other and gather the harvest of love that a family produces. Perhaps I am naive.
I expected feet kissing too but alot of him still feels that he has been so wronged by my and my temper. I have made it clear that in my opinion my anger was justified in the face of his lying about and engaging in an affair.
Without a lot more give on both sides this M is no where near piecing. Piecing is HARD when both parties are willing to own up to their own sh!t; when you are both still entrenched in your own corners, nursing your hurts and wounds, piecing just isn't going to happen.
Either both let go of the bad feelings and the history or let go of each other.
Saffie me 46 H 46 M in 1986 D20,D18,S16,D13 H's A 01/05 to 07/06 H recommitted to M 07/06 renewed vows 09/06 Going from strength to strength
Saffie, Thank you for your well intentioned response. truth is that is complicated and confusing. You say " Either both let go of the bad feelings and the history or let go of each other." It is interesting to me how it is never so clear cut in my dealings with my H. One day we have apologized and cleared the air; our interactions are fond, genuine and productive and I feel we could work things out beautifully. A few days later, my H is back to feeling wronged and though he tries to listen, he fails because he can't see through the fog of his negative thinking. This last interaction, over the move to the University actually ended quite productively. We agreed to put aside any of our wounded feelings for the days it takes to move our son in and that afterward we would meet for the "big talk" to decide whether we will be able to reconcile. We have in good faith 'owned up' to our respective responsibilities, but sadly, the hurts do tend to resurface from time to time. It is this which makes me frustrated, the back and forth of it all. I would like to apologize, and go forward. This constant re apologizing, re enumerations of past deeds, reestablishment of good faith is agonizing to me and makes me feel dejected. I realize we need counseling. I merely need a place to voice out loud my more negative feelings so that I can see my way as clearly as possible. I agree entirely that piecing is hard. I believe that is what I am experiencing now.
I have decided to find inspiring quotes from the board and paste them for others who are experiencing similar things. Member
Registered: 12/08/08 Posts: 285 Hi Kissak,
Sorry you're feeling so ... alone. That's what I hated about Piecing: sometimes things seemed to flow so much better between us, and then H would go into another period of navel-gazing and it would feel as though he'd gone back to his you-don't-matter Replay behaviour. Really, these were necessary periods, because during them he finally assessed his whole behaviour during the EA, figured out what a good relationship looked like, etc.
But for myself, I found the best way of handling them was to remind myself that I'd learned I could be fine on my own, so if he never became an equal partner again, I could leave the M feeling proud of how hard I'd tried to make it work, and proud of the dignity I'd shown and changes I'd made. Then, I devoted myself to whatever needed doing ... and he'd come looking for me when he was ready.
I don't know whether your H has reached the point where he truly is working on himself, but since he is going to a C, likely he is making progress. With luck, he'll reach a point where his internal growth can be manifested in his words and actions. It does take LONGER for the selfishness of the MLCer to wear off than you would ever believe possible, even after they do come back, so I hope he is still moving along in his healing.
Hugs for you, Kissak. I remember parts of Piecing as being so hard that I wondered whether I was going to sink into my own depression. You've discovered your own strength in this whole process, however, so I know you're going to be fine.
So we took the 2 day trip to leave our son off at the university. H on his best behavior at son's repeated behest. We had 2 fabulous days. I haven't seen H so happy in years! He was so nice, like when we were first in love. I was so happy even though I am on crutches. He asked to come home at the end, and make positive steps. We agreed, finally dream come true. However, when I finally hobbled into the house after H (took awhile because of all the stairs), my D17 seemed to have been crying. I wasn't sure since she had stayed home sick and had clearly just showered whether it was just histamines acting up to make her face pinkish. I looked at H's face and he looked calm so I just let it go. We all sat and laughed together. H stayed and stayed, finally left but wanted to come again the next day. I said sure, was in heaven. When he leaves D17 says she doesn't want him to come and that he had caused her to cry before I came in. She was "dismissive" in her attitude to him he had said. This broiled my blood. What could be more dismissive than leaving your family for another woman! So the next day I called and asked to postpone a week. I hoped keep the good feelings going. My foot was swollen and I re injured my hamstring during the trip so I was in pain. I canceled all my friends for the week because of it. I wanted to give daughter time to process. I needed to hear her side again. I needed time to think. I had read on this board the danger of jumping right back in and making the mistakes again because of not having discussed and deliberated on the issues which caused the marital damage in the first place. H got mad. Said he didn't want to be told when he could and could not come to his own house. After all he paid the mortgage on it he said. This is clearly a boundary issue. I don't know how to handle it. H feels that we don't appreciate how hard he works. "No other guy would have kept on paying for his family just because he love them." he said. I have said over and again, thank you and the kids have too. I can't break through his barrier of self pity. H said " After all I've done" you all treat me like [censored]. For the first time in 5 years I actually reponded to this accusation. I said," The key idea there is after all that you've done" Part of that all was leaving us.
D17 took phone from me and told H that if he wanted to come home she need him to consent to family counseling first. She said that she had been so hurt by him that she need to trust that he would not just leave again. He threatened not to pay for the bills, he accused her of treating him "like [censored]", he said that she didn't want him to come home, that she didn't appreciate all that he had done for her. She said she didn't remember him except for the day he left. She said that she didn't feel she could communicate with him because he couldn't hear her words. She was very upset afterwards. He said that he was hurt by her. Finally he said,'Since you all don't want me to come home that's fine'
I finally had to say something. I told him that that last statement was the easy way out. It was making up something to let him walk away easily without acknowledging the reality of the situation. So I reiterated that asking for counseling was not the same as saying D17 doesn't want him home, but that it was saying she didn't want a repeat of her last 5 years. That the other kids have clearly said they want him home.
he said he felt that I was finally opening the doors to him a little. I responded that the doors have been open for 5 years but he just kept refusing my invitations in. Then he said he now saw that the situation was not what he thought, that I hadn't been keeping the kids away at all.
H agreed to come next week. We agreed we would try to keep the positive momentum up. I was suprised by this. The conversation seemed to have been going down hill. He said he felt an ultimatum had been given him. Counseling or no return home. Then he rallied and decided to try again, as I had initally aked, only to give it some time. I think I need to make a family counseling appointment soon? Should I try to work on making things positive with H first? I feel as though if H and I could work through some things, and solidify our intentions then, family counseling might be more affective. All the kids will be away at college next year. They would be home for breaks and summer only for at least the next 2 years.4 years for my youngest D17.
