Where does the WAW go

[Doodi]

((((Doodi)))) I'm sorry, it sounds like a really dark place.

What you say seems A LOT like what my H goes through. He has depression tendencies and low esteem issues. If you wouldn't mind explaining what you mean that you get side swiped?

With us, it's like we both start opening up and suddenly it goes into an overload and gets "too good" and everything goes plummeting down. He just turns upside down. Some times I feel like no matter what I say, we'll still end up in a fight.

I know I'm useless at cheering people up, but I hope you bounce back from the depression soon. You're doing so well at working on yourself and trying to straighten your issues out and your help to others here is invaluable. Hugs again!

Don't stress about cheering me up. I'll shove my feelings back in the box soon enough. It's all good.

As for me being side swiped. That's how I feel today. Last night, he was telling me things were getting better, that he acknowledged some of the issues we've had, that he is willing to wait for me to work through my issues, etc...and then today he says I'm not trying, that he is doing all the work, that I'm leading him on and that I need to make up my mind NOW.

The little arguments are frustrating but I can normally work through those. But when I've been focused on nothing but my issues and he says I don't care, that I'm not doing anything. It kills me.

[ris]

Don't stress about cheering me up. I'll shove my feelings back in the box soon enough. It's all good.

Don't shove them in the box!

We all have fears and fear is constructive in that it helps us learn about ourselves. The mature person faces his fears rather than denying them. The only way to deal with fear is to face it--fears faced can be overcome. ‘The next time you feel like you are being swallowed up, just watch your feelings. Face them. Sit with them and they will pass.'

[Doodi]

Tough question. I'm always overanalyzing my wife's actions, trying to determine if she's "trying."

My H over-analyzes alot too. There have been conversations where I don't get to say a word. He will have an entire argument with himself and what he THINKS I would say or do.

I can't read her mind, just her actions. When she's involved with me, when she's asking about me and my day, I feel she's involved and trying. When she's talking about someone else who's just a peripheral person in both our lives, I know she's trying to fill a quiet moment with idle chatter. I don't see her talking about our sitch to anyone important to her, no journaling, no reading books on improving relationships, just living with me while going to MC.

Like I said to Ris, he knows I'm journaling, reading, going to IC and MC. I've also stepped out of my box and gone on dates with him. I've held his hand when we were walking around. I feel like I'm doing alot, but it's not enough.

I think the problem is that your H gave you an ultimatum. And you let him box you in.

EXACTLY! Now can you tell me how NOT to get stuffed in that box?

When my anxiety and fear hits a fever pitch (as it does to your H) I quiet myself by saying that she hasn't left, that she's going to MC, that she hasn't seen a L, and isn't even talking about leaving.

Now that may be pretending. Or ignoring harsh reality. But she's told me she wants to work on our M. That's she's patient, and that I need to be patient.

I don't think it's pretending. I know for me the things that you mentioned speak volumes about your wife's feelings. I just can't get my H to look at those things as positives.

I think that one of you needs to make the tough choice to stay or leave. Staying doesn't mean being welded together; it means that while you're staying in the house, you're working on yourself and the marriage. If you can't do that, take the hard step to move out so you can find the space and strength to do as much healing and self-revelation as you can. [/quote]

That's where I thought we were. I felt like I was starting to see the light in the fog. Now it's pitch black again, I feel like I'm back to square one.

Doodi

[Doodi]

We all have fears and fear is constructive in that it helps us learn about ourselves. The mature person faces his fears rather than denying them. The only way to deal with fear is to face it--fears faced can be overcome. ‘The next time you feel like you are being swallowed up, just watch your feelings. Face them. Sit with them and they will pass.'

Sometimes I feel like it's better to shove the feelings back in a box so I can deal in facts and not emotions. My emotions and instincts have kept me crippled for awhile (one of many reasons I'm in therapy) so when they reach a certain point, I have to squash them.

That said one of the things I'm trying to fix for myself (and my M) is the depth of my depression. If I wasn't so hyper-sensitive, my feelings wouldn't be hurt so quickly and I wouldn't feel the need to fight or run. I've been fighting the pain for a long time...now I'm starting to feel like it's time to run.

[pinhead]

Doodi,

It's hard to have a discussion with someone who will monopolize the conversation (trust me, I know. My wife can talk for hours). What might work is sitting him down, and asking him what you can do to help reduce his fear. That's all that's driving him right now, complete and total fear. That's not your fault! But I think that he might respond better to the sitch if you just asked him that one question. And then thought about what he responded with and if you were capable of it right now. Then offer the things you can.

[AJM]

You are right about staying being the hardest road to travel. At times it just seems like we could both focus better if we were alone and not rehashing everything so often. I will probably have alot more days like this one between now and the end (whatever the end may bring) but I've fought my whole life and I'm still fighting. But I'm so tired.

Yes. You are very tired of it. Think of something else: if you keep rehashing it over and over again won't there be a time when you both won't be rehashing it? With or without leaving? I can say that would happen at some point. You'll both get tired of rehashing it. Really.

Stay the road no matter what Doodi. Tell yourself you won't leave, no matter what, and make him promise same, until you both have your feelings figured out and have been that way for at least one year. Figured out that is. Trust me, that's a much better way to go. There will be plenty of time for other things if needed, but if you leave to early you won't see how the story really ends

Good luck Doodi. I'm going to take a break for a while. But I'll be back to see how you are coming along.

[Doodi]

My biggest battle is to keep myself from falling victim to that demon that says "Do whatever they want, so they stop hurting you."

This is something I learned early in life growing up in an abused home. And I've turned it into my mantra. I don't say or do anything that could lead me to pain.

So when things get really hard with H then I immediately want to say whatever it he wants to hear so the pain will stop. The only problem is now that I'm finally able to say this hurts, I'm in pain, I've become the bad guy. All I want is to not hurt anymore.

[pinhead]

My biggest battle is to keep myself from falling victim to that demon that says "Do whatever they want, so they stop hurting you."

This is something I learned early in life growing up in an abused home. And I've turned it into my mantra. I don't say or do anything that could lead me to pain.

So when things get really hard with H then I immediately want to say whatever it he wants to hear so the pain will stop. The only problem is now that I'm finally able to say this hurts, I'm in pain, I've become the bad guy. All I want is to not hurt anymore.

This is pretty common from the married women I've known. They minimize their needs for their husband's wants and desires. And it's a hard thing to overcome. My wife is so paralyzed over hurting everyone in our family, she can't even THINK about what she needs in a rational sense.

But you need to figure out the minimum you need to thrive and survive. And then you need to pray for, and summon, the courage and strength to tell it to your husband; that for Doodi to be happy, she needs this. Either we figure a way for this to happen, or I'm going to leave.

[AJM]

Um, Pinhead, I think she has started doing that. It seems to be causing more pain, no?
But Doodi, I think you do need to do those things. You really should not expect him to "just figure it out". You haven't. He is not a mind reader and not a god. He can't snap his fingers and know what you don't know about you.
Learning to stand up is a good thing. But it is change and he isn't in the same place in the relationship as you are.
Change is painful, right? I imagine it is for him as well. And since he hasn't initiated the change and sees you in pain, he gets a double whammy. Makes people crazy and makes them see-saw back and forth.
Because they care.
Hang in there Doodi. Long road; pack a lunch. But don't leave. Don't think that just because you aren't "happy" right now, that you won't be at some point. Quite possibly with your husband in a much more improved relationship where the real Doodi and Mr Doodi show up to the party. It is painful, but believe that it is worth it. Be patient. Be kind. And be careful to not cause damage where you can help it. You'll regret the damage later if you can't stop it. But be honest as well. Especially with yourself.

[A_goodman]

Dood,

Gettith out of thy house and go for a walk.

I cannot stress enough that when you are emotionally drained, or tired, you are vulnerable to making bad decisions. And physical activity is a way to increase your energy levels. It will also release endorphins that will aid in emotional well-being and mental acuity.

Tell him that one thing you are going to do for you is get in shape. That you have figured out a walking route and want to start doing it daily. Then when you feel boxed in, get out and hit it. A side effect is that it will give you a half hour or so of "alone time". It's a win-win. Plus soon you'll start feeling better about your self image.

Do it today dood. I promise it will help in just a few short days.