children are resilient

[futureunknown]

The kids saw us treating each other pretty well. Much better than many parents who are still together. We were respectful, we helped each other, we had fun, we laughed, we talked, we were physically affectionate. There are ways parents act in front of their kids, and there are ways they act in private. We were fine in the former, it was latter that was the problem. Was there a "vibe" maybe the kids would ocassionally pick up on? Maybe, but it's not even close. The pain, anger, fear, confusion, and tears the kids have endured in the last two years is ten times more than they had previously. It's a joke to even consider that they are now better off.

And I'm not even talking about the practical benefits, of them having all their things in one place, and having a home they call their own. Interesting, they now ALWAYS refer to either Mommy's house or Daddy's house, never OUR house. Financially, the kids are much poorer now. My ability to help them with college is dramatically reduced. Again, not even close.

Every bit of research shows that unless there was abuse in the home, divorce is a net negative for kids, and the damage done manifests itself in their later lives.

[FindingMyVoice]

FMV,
What was really going on? Do you feel differntly now? How did that happen? Are you still together with your H?
I like your tag line. I wish my W would realize that.
Thanks!

Hi Dan, I'm going find your thread, and to put a link to my sitch and answer your question there if that's ok? Just so I don't interrupt the convo here again?

[Ready2Change]

For whatever reasons, we were/are in unhealthy relationships with our (x)spouses.

My goal is to model healthy adult behavior to my children. They are watching.....

Model it when speaking/interacting with my (x)spouse.
Model it when speaking/interacting with each of my kids.
Model it when speaking/interacting with others.

Continue to learn better adult behaviors.

[Ready2Change]

Every bit of research shows that unless there was abuse in the home, divorce is a net negative for kids, and the damage done manifests itself in their later lives.

I don't think anyone is arguing this point.

Right now, most people on this site are in an unhealthy relationship with their spouse. This dramatically affects the children.

Most people on this site have a hard time seeing their part in fall of the R. They have a hard time seeing how their CURRENT actions are driving their partner farther away.

[Ready2Change]

.. Interesting, they now ALWAYS refer to either Mommy's house or Daddy's house, never OUR house...

How do you refer to the houses? I always call my house "Home"..."I am glad you are home"...and I say "Time to go to Moms"....They will use your terms...they will use your spouses terms....

[MakingProgress]

.. Interesting, they now ALWAYS refer to either Mommy's house or Daddy's house, never OUR house...

How do you refer to the houses? I always call my house "Home"..."I am glad you are home"...and I say "Time to go to Moms"....They will use your terms...they will use your spouses terms....

I'm not sure I understand the distinction you are making between the terms your children are using and the terms Future's children are using?

[futureunknown]

When the kids are with me, I refer to W's house as "Mom's house, and I use "our house" when referring to where they are now, and call it home. W recently took the kids to Disneyworld for five days, and then due to scheduling arrangements, she had them for a couple days after they got back. My son had a baseball game, and after the game he asked his Mom if he could sleep at Dad's. She said ok. I drove us home, and when he went in the door he stopped and took a deep breath in, then out. Then he said "It's so great to be home." I was happy he felt that way about my house, but I was sad that he feels he has to spend so much time away from his "home".

[Ready2Change]

I'm not sure I understand the distinction you are making between the terms your children are using and the terms Future's children are using?

The children have two houses "Moms house" and "dads house" They get these terms from everyone.

Dad has two terms "our home" and "Moms house"
Mom has two terms "our home" and "Dads house"
The teaches, friends,etc have two terms "moms house" and Dads house"

[futureunknown]

My goal is to model healthy adult behavior to my children. They are watching.....

Model it when speaking/interacting with my (x)spouse.
Model it when speaking/interacting with each of my kids.
Model it when speaking/interacting with others.

Continue to learn better adult behaviors.

Unfortunately, the only thing that got through to my wayward W was when I essentially cut off all communication. Even when we were in the same room, I would not look at her, and would only answer direct questions, with one or two word answers. After a few months of that, she indicated she wanted to reconcile, and she became extremely affectionate. I did then break down my wall and started treating her very well, I was fun and charming, and affectionate in return. Result? She told me she was confused as to how she felt about me, and now we're back to barely speaking.

The kids deserve better.

[A_goodman]

I can't speak for others, but this is an issue that evokes very strong emotions for me. I see some of the points about Happy parents being important. I totally get that I am my son's chief role model and need to demonstrate what respect for my loved ones (and anybody else for that matter) looks like; while also demonstrating what it means to be a man and act with self respect. I Do believe that in cases where there is abuse, it may be better for the kids if their parents split. I know and own that we LBS's have played a part and need to take responsibility for our marital problems. And I understand first hand, that trying to use the issue of the kids welfare to affect change in the WAS is a lost cause.

However, as I read the beginning of this thread, it was about the prevailing attitude that "the kids will be fine", and that our culture throws the phrase, "kids are resilient" around VERY cavalierly. It is in my opinion a rationalization made, either by selfish, fogged-out people who know better, but need to salve their guilt; or by those who could care less, but need to seem knowledgeable.

40 challenged anyone to provide evidence to the contrary. Sure there are anecdotal examples of children being better off, but I have found no RESEARCH; no longitudinal studies that show statistically significant data to show that children from a non-abusive home fare as well (as a group) after divorce as children whose family stayed together. Trust me. I've looked.

That doesn't mean that I won't do everything in my power to ensure a happy, stable, well adjusted life to my sons. If anything, I will try harder knowing that statistically, they will have more odds against them if it goes that way. Odds can be beaten and I believe all of us will do our best to confound the statistics. Hopefully, we'll all be successful.

It also doesn't mean that I'm desperately trying to keep W by using this as a tactic. I might have been guilty of that in the beginning, yet the research speaks for itself. I did not create it out of thin air. At this point, after months of being subjected to this heartache and CB, I would sell her down the river for a plugged nickel. And yet I persevere. Why? Because I want to give my sons every chance in the world, however remote, to not ALSO be bombed.

I have been mature enough and smart enough to read and study. With all of your help, I have been able to change and grow through this. They are 12 and 9. They will NOT be able to reason this out. They will NOT be able to change their expectations and develop abstract mechanisms to handle their emotional turmoil. They won't be able to understand that this thing that is our family, that all their lives they've been told is "base" is breaking up. And it is not within their ability to control, or their fault, or really any single person's fault. It will be no solace to tell them that it is rather, a complex, intractable series of events, both real and perceived that even the grown-ups, with all their education, cannot unravel. “It is what it is” won’t really fly for them.

Sure, I'll get them IC if they show any signs of distress, and We'll work together to co-parent them. But the damage will be done. Emotional safety might be forever rent. All their lives, THIS will be the defining moment of their youth. The event horizon. One day we were all together, and then we weren't anymore. We will forget more than they will. They will remember what day of the week it was and what song was playing on the radio and every other DAMN thing about that moment in time.

I’ve seen my W go all "momma bear" at the drop of a hat, because she felt like somebody had hurt one of those kids feelings. She felt EXACTLY like me up until this all started. Now she's willing to endanger their future happiness in exchange for her's today. Nobody will ever tell me that she doesn't know it deep down under the fog that she's full of it when she says things like "they'll be better off, or their resilient or any of the other nonsense I've heard.

Yes. I did try to use it in the beginning to my advantage. when I was hurt and desperate, I threw it all in her face. You know why? Because I really believed she knew that it was true and couldn't possibly turn away from reality on this one subject. WRONG. Was it wrong and manipulative? Yes. Did it work against me? Yes. How much, I’ll never know. But, was it wrong to point out? Not in the least. She needs to face this as the most severe consequence of her actions. I should have done it in a non-manipulative way, but I would have said it anyway eventually. They need to hear the truth and face it. It’s almost like busting an A. it might not help you, but it is the truth and needs to be done IMO.

I don't talk about it with her anymore. Or any other reason to stay. I know there's no hope to change her. If she changes it will be of her own doing. But, she knows where I stand, because she used to stand there too.

Sorry for the rant. I guess, I still have some anger. I’m surprised by that, but not at its’ source. What has happened between us really doesn’t matter to me anymore. But what looks imminent for my kids has got me pretty riled up right now. Good thing it’s early. I'll cool off before I go home.