Moved here from Piecing...

[AJM]

Note that I am not condoning his behavior. Just pointing out another side to the conversation. His actions are based on the same hurt, right? Has he ever been able to live up to your expectations? Do you only want him back so you can live your dream of an intact family or do you love him for who he is? Know the difference.

This is what I realized when we took our "temporary separation". What I did was wrong, as is what he is doing. Frankly having a fullblown relationship when times are tough is the most hurtful thing to me - if it were just sex, it might be easier. I betrayed him. But he betrayed me too. Yes, it's been painful. Yes, we hurt each other. But I am willing and have been looking hard at myself and making necessary changes. He looked to partying and finding someone else. Period.

That's accusatory and judgemental. You are angry. I get that. But this really just points to two people at two different places in the relationship. You handled it one way. He handled it another. See below for more thoughts.

H says "You didn't want me then and now you want me back. I don't trust you." OK, that's a starting point, IMO, not an end point.

Right. Why would he trust you? What has changed for a LONG ENOUGH PERIOD that he would trust you? See, that is a big deal. Trust. I'm pointing this out for a reason, Hope.

Oh well I'm sick of who is right and who is wrong.

Perfect. You show great growth here. He doesn't. Yet. Again, that's two people in two different places in the relationship.

He never once said he left because of other men. He said it was the painful relationship we had. HOwever, there were never any solutions to that offered by him besides leaving. On the other hand, he never once said "I will not be in a M with someone who cheated, I'm getting a D and am not coming back." I stayed in the dreaded limbo hoping he'd come around, see my changes, etc.

Just because he didn't say it..... Let me re-word this as I would have seen it had that been said to me (it was). "I waited around waiting for the changes YOU needed to make and you did not. You are not worthy of being my husband because you would have changed. I would not accept you until you did. It's your fault the marriage isn't working." Change? What was his motivation to change again?

Believe me, I hear what you are saying. We both hurt each other. This is what I struggle with daily. But of course I want to grow and change within the relationship. I was acting immaturely and I want to act more maturely now. I think it's clear he doesn't. Not to blame. But I never heard him once say that he wanted to change to make our M better.

Again, you are saying that you want to grow and therefore he should too. Is that unreasonable? No. Is that controlling? Judgemental? Yes and yes. It comes across as you inflicting your will on him. Controlling.


For him to walk away from his child is a big deal. It's not right and likely causes additional pain. But it may be all he can do to keep himself shiny side up on the road. Have you considered that? Have you considered that your feelings of change and how big a deal something is or is not, may not be the same as his? You hurt. He hurts. You deal with it one way. He deals with it another way.

What he tells the OW? I'm sure there are many things in that conversation that are true. Some may be exaggerated. Some are part of lashing out due to the pain most likely. You can't blame her in this. This is his decision.

So where are we? I think it's like this: you made a few mistakes. Should it be the end of the marriage? I don't think so. But what I think is irrelevant. What he thinks and what you think are relevant.

Have you asked him how the two of you can rebuild the trust and respect between you? Keeping in mind your mothering instinct that the child is worth saving the marriage and should be for him to, may not be how a man thinks?

What I hear in your posts is that you don't respect him. That you want him to be a certain way that fits your vision and it doesn't sound like you leave a lot of room for him to be him. Add in the other issues that may be present (addictions) and it's small wonder he doesn't want to come back.

Did he lead you on? Maybe. Maybe he was waiting for you to change to meet his expectations. The same as you have been.

Drop the expectations. Drop the past. Build the trust. Do what it takes to build that trust before it's too late.

Friendship? Is that not where relationships start? Just asking.