Here's a story...of a very sad lady

[Virtually_Handsome]

Hey Ash, I think at this point nothing would surprise M&D. And you are right, who knows what H told them. So will you call them and tell them the truth?

You know you wouldn't have to ask twice...I'd also throw in a call to that H of yours for free!

So, maybe I just won't plan to have a long term R with the other team, just use them for sex. I wonder how that works? I'm sure someone would be willing to show me the ropes.

Dear Lord, I'm gonna pretend I didn't read that!

Uhhh, well....
No there's really nothing to say!

[Dagny-2]

Hey Ash, I think at this point nothing would surprise M&D. And you are right, who knows what H told them. So will you call them and tell them the truth?

You know you wouldn't have to ask twice...I'd also throw in a call to that H of yours for free!

So, maybe I just won't plan to have a long term R with the other team, just use them for sex. I wonder how that works? I'm sure someone would be willing to show me the ropes.

Dear Lord, I'm gonna pretend I didn't read that!

Uhhh, well....
No there's really nothing to say!

Since I'm serious old school and know I should start a new thread after 100 posts, I can let this thread go completely down hill. My sister is just a bit of a prude, she needs to expand her horizons a bit. Could make the family holidays much more intersting.

[KellBell0820]

What I hate most is all the conflicting emotions, I feel strong one moment, and so terribly sad the next, I hate him one moment and another I just want him/my life back. And I used to love roller coasters.

Dagny

The emotions are the worst! This is one rollercoaster I can definitely say I hate.

[NotCrackingUp]

Dagny-2,

I've just read through your thread from start to finish. So many of the emotions you describe have rung true. Feeling the loss of friendship and physical love, the betrayal of so many years together, watching children cope with the selfishness of someone they looked up to so much.

My H has been acting in a way I'd never have imagined he would.You've posted on my thread so you've read some of it. He's not the same man. So wrapped up in himself (and his affair?) that he can't/won't see what he's doing to his kids.

As for you, weekends are the worst for me - Saturday nights when I'm sure he's out (or in) with the hairdresser from hell. Moments when we used to be a couple. Like you, I don't like being around other couples, or hearing about friends' husbands.
This community, reading posts and rambling on myself, has been a lifeline. When I really feel ready to die, I log on and it calms me. Someone told you that your kids will react as you do. In my experience, it's true. If I'm upbeat and can smile and seem ok, the three of them are relieved and more relaxed. I do my best to cry in bed when they're asleep, and then only.Not easy.I haven't always managed.

My H takes the kids to his flat on 2 weekdays and every second weekend; however, my school timetable is very stable, but he often has meetings and competitions (and romantic things he hasn't done with me for a long time?) that clash with that arrangement. For the sake of peace for my kids and being a "good" wife (=silly eejit=doormat?), I've been as helpful as possible with this. So boundaries are difficult.

You got some very sound advice from "puppy" and others, which will help me too. I'm going to read up on "setting free" and "letting go". The affair-busting paratrooper stuff is not for me (yet). I'm inclined to stammer and lose my footing in a confrontation. I'd feel much more embarrassed than he or she would, even if I caught them red ***ed. My H made me feel I obliged him to have an affair, made me feel so guilty. Over what? Looking after three wains, working very hard and studying at the same time. I took my eye off the ball, maritally speaking.
I know it's rubbish, but that guilty feeling is still there. So I don't feel the right to "out" his affair. But it sure would help to know.

Getting a life is what I'm trying to do, for myself first. I still love him, as he was before this addiction took hold (he told me once he couldn't forget her, it was like a "drug"). I don't love the selfish bullying actions I see now.

We've got to salvage ourselves and children from the wreckage and try to get good out of life again. And if Hs decide to stop wrecking their lives with OW and come back towards us, well and good. Hope things work out for you, I really found my own feelings in your story.
NotCrackingUp

[Dagny-2]

Thanks NCU, there is a weird sense of peace knowing that we aren't going through this alone, we aren't totally insane for what we feel and what we want. Often the advice on others' threads is so applicable to our own situation. I really get good vibes from yours!

So, had a 2 hour conversation with H. I learned the affair started this summer and she isn't married. He has taken me off two of the credit cards, so if I would have gone to use them today, I would have been quite embarrased. He has no trust in me becasue last time he left me and was paying for our mortgage and his townhome and I saved money, I was robbing him blind and therefore can't be trusted. Stupid me, never should have told him about the money. Now he wants half of it. Not sure what to do there, I have "money under the mattress" type tendencies, I thought he respected that and never made me put it in a mutual fund. He also told me that I didn't appreciate him for who he was and that OW does, she accepts him as he is. And, if the affair is discovered at work there is a chance he could be fired, he doesn't think so, but there is a chance. He also wants the divorce to be final on Jan 2 for tax reasons, so if he wants that timetable, he will have to file soon to get past the 90 day waiting period. Oh, she isn't M, so I said, good, you are only breaking up one family. And at some point I said with us being down there he gets to see his kids and have sex with his girlfriend. I stayed very calm and I think that was my only snarky comment I said out loud.

I also asked if he would be objecting to me moving back to PA, he said no, but he wants joint custody. Ok, what are you going to do in the summer, who will take care of them, what will you do when you have 11pm meetings at your work that is 35 minutes away. He said they are old enough to take care of themselves.

He asked me if I've been to L, I side-stepped the question and said I wasn't planning to file anytime soon. He wants us to go to L with a plan already laid out and that way we will save money. He has spent the night researching divorce-dad websites and learning the laws of both states.

What a night. Oh, forgot, he said some day I would find someone who I could "share my loving, caring, self with." I told him at my age I had a better chance of dying in a terroist attack! I'm going to scream. I really should sleep, I have a meeting with department heads and the VP tomorrow. Yikes!

Dagny

[NotCrackingUp]

Dagny,

how could he call you "loving and caring" and also accuse you of cheating him out of money? I've also heard that sort of totally unreasonable inconsistent stuff from my H. Anything they can get their hands on is considered ammunition in the bid to prove how horrible we are. I've been told, during the same session, that I "smothered" him and that he turned to another woman because he lacked affection, that I was always at home, never went anywhere and that I was forever at work and never at home. I tried my best, silly foolah that I am, to see his point, and I even saw some grains of truth I can start working on... But the whole thing is illogical.We become a sort of target for anger against life, getting old, the wear and tear of dreams. Anger I think they feel against themselves. I read a book by a French therapist about "the ecology of love". Like Michele W-D, he is agaist divorce, says it's 90% a cop-out and it would nearly always be better for individuals and society to repair rather than break up. Anyway, in a chapter about domestic rows and conflict, he deals with anger. He says that a man, in anger, says things to his wife "that are really addressed to his mother". And that a wife, in a fit of anger, will "shout at her spouse what she's always wanted to say but never dared (or been able)to say to her father". the therapist says that all through life we play out scenarios from childhood in different ways, and the treatment we give our spouses reflects questions unresolved with our parent of the opposite sex. A bit daunting, but interesting, don't you think. I seem to remember in your case some coldness from your parents in-law, who felt it would be awkward to meet you. My mother-in-law is furious with her son, wants to shout and roar at him.His siblings are on the sidelines. The problem here is that his Dad, my father-in-law (now deceased) did exactly the same thing to my mother-in-law when my H was a teen.My MIL and FIL were in their early fifties, had only 2 out of 5 kids living at home, the others had left. He met another W while out ballroom dancing, carried on an affair. My MIL found out, nearly went mad with grief. He told her he didn't love her anymore, all that we've heard. He left the house and went to a flat in town. My H hated this time and always held it in for his father. My FIL eventually gave up this OW and came back and their marriage was "better than ever". So is my H repeating something? His mother said it to him and he was very angry and upset. But in May, he did once say to me "you never know, look at what happened with Papa, he came back eventually".

So how do we know but that there aren't other forces working their way to the surface from childhood, nothing to do with us, things our WAS need to address and exorcise in themselves?

Your H seems to be afraid about money. D is costly here too, but money is always a cipher for other things, between humans, power, territory, love, space, independence. My husband has himself shown a mean streak lately; he wants out but is upset not to share in my new, much higher salary (thks to exam I sat last year). He even took a rather large sum out of my account "to set up the flat for the kids" without telling me. I picked him up on that. I've always said what's mine is his, but I'mnot going to subsidize his single life. I felt he was treating me like a bad-boy teen might treat his mother, robbing her purse.(See above) It's possibly the only time I really stoodup for myself and set a clear boundary.Strange behaviour, a mixture of sour grapes and vengefulness - for what?

How well your H is in such a hurry to MARRY his OW. Marriage doesn't seem to agree with him that much. Maybe people don't just live together in the 'States. I'd have thought he'd feel a hypocrite saying he was going to "love and honour" someone again so quickly.

I feel really sorry that he's doing this, but he may well repent later...at leisure. Keep the chin up.
NCU

[Virtually_Handsome]

(((((Dagny)))))
I hope your meeting goes well today.

Situations like yours make me wonder. You think you save things, but the underlying flaw in the character (it seems that must be what it is?) just goes dormant, waiting for another opportunity to pop out. And then you find yourself back "here" again, only with even more doubts.

I don't know where I am headed with this, really. Maybe just hoping that you aren't acting out of fear of the unknown.

[Dagny-2]

I just finished a whole long post and hit go instead of submit and it disappeared. Gosh, it was so insightful and everything.

I did want to record some journaling, I don't know if I have the energy to do it again.

H has been wanting to have long conversations this week. I’m not sure if he feels odd talking to OW while the kids in the house, or if he is using this time to try to pry into my mind. We had another long one last night (the previous night I said no to talking, that I was still emotionally drained from the night before). The only time we raised our voices was over the cleanliness of the house. He only sees what I fail to do (bathroom counters, vacuum never touched –only bedrooms have carpet, hand prints on the wall), I got angry and told him what I did. Oh, and there are maggots in the trash can, how is that my fault. So he said, guess I hit a nerve, I said he did and maybe we should say goodnight. I was waiting for him to say bye, but he didn’t, he still wanted to talk!

I made sure when I talked to him to use the words affair and adultery, I want to call a spade a spade. He said I don’t need to make him feel guilty, he already feels guilty, but he knows that he is a good person, and it doesn’t matter what other people think, because he knows that. He is doing what is “right for him”, what he needs to do to make him happy (no mention of me (expected) or the kids). If he was so sure he is a good person, why has he not told a single one of his friends that he has left his wife and kids? The only people he has told are his parents.

I asked him some questions about OW, her age and if she has children, he said what does it matter to each question. I said that C (who he respects) told me that the kids shouldn’t meet her for at least a year, that is will just mess them up even more. I asked if he respected that, and he said yes. We’ll see, his word isn’t quite what is used to be.

He keeps asking me for a timeline, how long until I do something. I told him about the Great Race, see who gets to the finish line first, that I won’t wait around forever and my love for him will eventually die. I’m sure some of you will say I sound needy, but I don’t feel it, I think it is just a matter of fact. Honestly, I know for the kids it is best if we reconcile and that is why I’m keeping this option open, but every day it continues, my feelings for him die a little bit more. I told him that S11 wants to finish the school year down there, he said that it too long. Though, I don’t know what he plans to do, kick us out? I have the leverage of exposing A.

He is now inventorying the house, I told him if he pushes things too fast, I won’t be able to handle it, that this is all a process, that he needs to give me time to work through the stages and he has had plenty of time to think about what he wants. Just trying to slow it down, I don’t want to make any major decisions based on emotions, I want to be rational about this. He did say that he knows at some point he would have to move back to PA to be near the kids (is this true, or some ploy to make me think he would). And what about the love of his life, is he going to bring her with him, is she going to leave her roots, her friends & family? He expects a lot from the women in his life.

Speaking of A, OW is a direct report to him. If they break up, I would imagine she could sue him for sexual harassment. C said I need to leave this alone, because ultimately it would hurt the kids if H loses his job and the means to support them. But if I need to use it as a threat, I will.

He asked at one point if we were friends. I asked him what he thought, he said that the previous night’s conversations he believed we were, but he wasn’t “feeling” it tonight. I said something, not sure what, and said I hope we come through this being friends. I also told him that C said that I shouldn’t worry if my actions would make him angry, he was confused about that, asked me for examples, I gave him two bland ones, I’m sure he was wondering if I was going to do any exposing-A type techniques, I didn’t think this was the time to let him know how far I would go.

I have set up a meeting with his parents. Last time he left me they went with him to shop for his new townhouse, had fun with it. They never called me to see how I was managing, though in proximity they are my closest relatives, my parents live 10 hours away and my sister was overseas. As we got closer to reconciling, he invited me to xmas and I sat there as his parents and brother’s family gave him presents for his new place. Once we reconciled, nothing was ever said to me. I have resented that to this day. So I’m not going to let it happen this time. I’m putting my big girl panties on and I’m going to go see them, I won’t trash H, but I will state how devastated the kids are, I am. They are my children’s grandparents, I will have to have a R going forward, and I want to clear the air now. I will use my best DB skills and make it about me, my needs, the kids needs, and not what I think H is thinking.
Saw one L here (liked her, but she is retiring in December). Unfortunately, the complexity of our lives makes a D very complex, the question of who has venue over the children.

Legally, the quicker I move back here the better. But I’m just not ready for that. Though even C asked what good it was doing living there in my attempt to save the M. If H files in TN, I can counter-file in PA, but then we start paying money on the fight just to establish venue! I need to keep a close eye on H and find out what his plans are, I can’t let him file in TN before I’m living here. This trying to keep the door open and protect myself, is getting very difficult.

Okay, this is long enough, and I’ve done it twice. I like trying to capture everything that was said, but what to do about it is a whole different ballgame. Speaking of which, Go Lions!

[NotCrackingUp]

Dagny,

All the legal stuff is beyond me, but it seems he's rushing things. I seem to remember you writing above somewhere that he wants to marry this OW. How can he be contemplating marriage while breaking up your family? Love the way they start picking holes in housework. I've been made to feel so defensive and guilty umpteen times, but I think it's just a way of shifting blame from their own shoulders.

The OW must feel great about to get hitched to a proven cheat and liar. Great sense of security.

I too am starting to feel that he's killing my feelings for him. Every cold, selfishly motivated action, every time he turns his back and walks away rather than face the music, he's chipping away at years of love and loyalty. I've tried to put my feelings in a box and close the lid, so as not to be a wreck. I've just started work in an inner-city school full of problem kids from broken homes and recently immigrated families. You need to be on the ball. If he goes on long enough at this "I want my freedom and some time but we're separated, not divorced" game, I'll be the one to get fed up and then he might get sense, but it'll be too late. Do you thik there's still a chance your H could return towards you? Are you getting-a-life? That part's not easy with kids. My H never has all three, my eldest (D13) is disgusted with her father and refuses to set foot in his flat. She's always with me, hardly speaks to him.I try to encourage her to be with him, but I can't force her. In France, children over 12 can choose not to abide by custody agreements and thus choose one parent over another. I'm glad of her company this weekend, but it also means that he has freedom (when he's without kids) that I'll never have. She doesn't even want to spend time with him. That should be making him sad, but he just seems to take it in his stride. We should all just fall in with what he wants, otherwise that's tough. That OW certainly has worked some powerful magic on him, the erstwhile family man of the year.

What do you think you can do now to save your M? I've been reading DB until I know bits by heart, I still can't see what to do at this stage, with separate houses and OW (almost certainly) in the picture. The one positive aspect is that he's hurting so much I've stopped taking his calls, don't text (save emergency "have gun will travel") and don't answer his texts.So this aft he was questioning the kids to know where I was and what doing, then texting me with info I already knew and to wish "a good lesson".Miracles...or what does he want?

If ever he does come back, will it be possible to trust and love this man again?
Take care,
NCU

[mishka422]

Awwww Dag......sorry about your Lions sweetie. They looked a little hapless against Bama. Of course, for the last two years most everyone has looked that way against them. I hate listening to the bunch of red-neck Bama lovers around here when they are doing well.....GAG!