dude, being bitter and angry is going to kill you. but that's a choice you make. not me)
That's a great line if he IS bitter and angry still!
See, you'll soon have all the bases covered:
Angry, bitter guy still: see above.
Reflective, sad guy? Don't clobber him.lol. This one is my favorite.lol.
And hardest of all--the "it's all your fault guy".lol. You have to validate that one--not easy at all.
Tell him you own 50% of the problems and he owns 50%. That is the truth and on some level he will know it. Plus your admitting something will get him curious about you.
They want to know what YOU know. Then you tell him that you are sorry for a lot of things and wish there were things you could do differently. Again, he'll be all ears.
You do a lot of leading, but hey--you're used to doing that anyway.
It's a scary conversation to an extent, but I tell you, you won't be sorry to have it--you'll be surprised and find it interesting on many levels. Even to this day I think back to that time. I will have to validate again soon. I have been playing hooky. But really, it's a gift you give them and even though my H thinks he is "done", when I give them those gifts he is far from done with me.lol. You can see it in them--they are "heard" and feel "understood". Validation is a very powerful tool. It's not agreeing with what they say, it's saying you can see how they would think that way.
Yeah, you can see how they got their really messed up way of thinking.lol. But, in a weird way, you CAN.lol.
Yeah, I agree with you--the WAS is almost never so "enlightened".
Let me ask you this: Would you date a guy that left his W? the way your H left you? I know I wouldn't--no way! If I date a guy that has been married, it's going to be one that didn't file and at least tried. A LBS for me or nothing!lol.
(Oh, except for a really adult WAS like I posted about above--one that had a clear plan and clear boundaries)
dude, being bitter and angry is going to kill you. but that's a choice you make. not me)
That's a great line if he IS bitter and angry still!
i don't want to mind read but my guess is that he still is.
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Reflective, sad guy? Don't clobber him.lol. This one is my favorite.lol.
compassion would be key here. it might be the only thing to combat bitterness.
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Tell him you own 50% of the problems and he owns 50%. That is the truth and on some level he will know it. Plus your admitting something will get him curious about you.
i don't think i'll use numbers. he's pretty pissed off about the 50/50 split on assets. and he kept using that against me .. so i rather just say .. we were both responsible. i should have gone to him but i wasn't sure how to approach the subject. i wasn't looking for a d. but i wanted to know how we could work out our issues. my h isn't much of a talker so i often felt that i couldn't go to him for anything. i should have tried anyway.
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They want to know what YOU know. Then you tell him that you are sorry for a lot of things and wish there were things you could do differently. Again, he'll be all ears.
would this not push him away? that's like talking about the r. if he's still pissed, me wanting to work on the r while he's ready to make a run for it .. it won't work.
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It's a scary conversation to an extent, but I tell you, you won't be sorry to have it--you'll be surprised and find it interesting on many levels.
he's a 7 yr old. i can already picture how it's going to go. two words: temper tantrum.
the funny thing is .. he wants to pay a lawyer $400 to fight over a $150 baseball (signed). it totally makes no sense and that's why my lawyer is advocating that i go talk to him.
h - when you see yourself doing something badly, and nobody is bothering to tell you or correct you, it means they've given up on you.
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You can see it in them--they are "heard" and feel "understood". Validation is a very powerful tool. It's not agreeing with what they say, it's saying you can see how they would think that way.
i'd have to try this.
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Let me ask you this: Would you date a guy that left his W? the way your H left you? I know I wouldn't--no way! If I date a guy that has been married, it's going to be one that didn't file and at least tried. A LBS for me or nothing!lol.
i don't know if i would date a divorcee - WAS or LBS. i would rather stay single. i couldn't go through another round of this.
Oh, wait, don't use the word "dude". I did that once with my H and it really set him off!!lol.
Use his name, keep eye contact, but soften your expression.
Let him be 7. If YOU are an adult, he won't stay there--you have had a 7-year-old because the two of you have both been at the same level.
Just keep in the front of your mind. What do adults do? They state clear boundaries, they have clear goals, they don't dwell on the past.
When he starts acting up, validate. Prepare for it--he is going to do this at some point. H, I understand that you feel that way, etc, etc.
Adults validate. Because they see the value in it. Get him to talk about what is making him upset/angry--Oh! Don't ask why questions. Say, H--help me to understand how you feel about XYZ? "Why" puts people on the defensive.
Also keep in front of your mind who you want to be. You are wanting to be helpful. You are proud of that in yourself. Does it matter if the person appreciates your efforts? To an adult, not really. It is more important to stay true to you than anything else.
would this not push him away? that's like talking about the r. if he's still pissed, me wanting to work on the r while he's ready to make a run for it .. it won't work.
Talking about the R in a reflective way is not pursuing. If you got together with an old boyfriend, you would talk this way--doesn't mean you want anything from it--you just talk about how you did things you wish you hadn't, etc.
Shows them what an insightful, mature person you have grown to be. You will lead them to reflect "maturely" themselves.
No, you aren't going to pursue at all. It's still a no no.lol.
Let him be 7. If YOU are an adult, he won't stay there--you have had a 7-year-old because the two of you have both been at the same level.
i dunno. at this point in time, the alien in him shows he's not capable of being an adult.
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Just keep in the front of your mind. What do adults do? They state clear boundaries, they have clear goals, they don't dwell on the past.
gotta remember these three key things. these are important.
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Adults validate. Because they see the value in it. Get him to talk about what is making him upset/angry--Oh! Don't ask why questions. Say, H--help me to understand how you feel about XYZ? "Why" puts people on the defensive.
i'm really bad at this because i always ask 'why' questions. why do you feel this way? can you explain to me why you believe that? why don't you put yourself in my shoes and see it from my point of view? why are you behaving like a child?
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Also keep in front of your mind who you want to be. You are wanting to be helpful. You are proud of that in yourself. Does it matter if the person appreciates your efforts? To an adult, not really. It is more important to stay true to you than anything else.
right. this is where it might help to see that i can "win" without being blatant. y'know what i mean? i can make him think he 'won'.
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Talking about the R in a reflective way is not pursuing. If you got together with an old boyfriend, you would talk this way--doesn't mean you want anything from it--you just talk about how you did things you wish you hadn't, etc.
i need an exercise on this. this is tough for me because this is like thinking vs. believing. when you believe, it comes out naturally. when you don't, then it's written all over your face.
same with the talking about r. when i talk about the r, it will come across as pursuing. and that's why i know i'm not ready for this talk. i know that if i talk about the r, i want something out of it. i want a reaction or a hint of possible reconciliation, or friendship.
this is where i need some 'exercise' in order to move me forward.
I think pursuing friendship is fine--it's true to you, and I don't see you as being all that pursuing inclined anyway. I have a hard time "seeing" you begging and pleading anytime soon.lol.
Again, because of how you are, I don't see that talking about the R will give him any indication that you are pursuing an R. You talking about the R in general terms will only show him you have "moved on" and aren't angry. Big step in moving towards a "friendship".
Staying true to you will always make you the "winner". You really have no choice but to try to be friends. This is who you are. This is who I am too. I'm not a vindictive, angry person. I keep in the front of my mind who I want to be, and then everyone else falls under that.
lately, i've been backsliding badly. need to spend some time GAL-ing. it will be somewhat of a challenge.
this weekend, i will do some baking. it's therapy for me. making goodies for my nieces. they enjoy my baked goods so i will make them some treats for their school lunches. my sister/their mom is not the best baker - i remember when she tried to make banana bread once the outside was burnt and the middle was raw. yuck.
there is a recipe for strawberry cheesecake cupcakes that i've been dying to try. i may attempt that this weekend too.
my friend marvin told me about positive thinking and changing your belief systems. he told me to give it a try. believe that it can be done. otherwise, if you believe in doom and gloom, that's what you'll get.
it will be okay. i'll fit in some strength training and squash. must maintain this girlish figure.
i don't know who follows my thread. but looking at the views, i can tell that others do read it - even if they don't post.
if that is the case, i want you to know that it's so important to take care of yourself. i know many have lost weight during the process due to the "devastation diet" and think it's great. i'm here to tell you that it's not great.
when you lose weight so drastically that way, it wreaks havoc on your organ function and weakens the immune system. just because you can't see them deteriorating, it doesn't mean that it's not happening. if you can feel the effect, then it's already too late.
do me a favor and take care of yourself. eat properly, take a multivitamin if you have to, get out there and move, sleep, and smile.
It's so important to take care of yourself--a lesson you will never regret learning.
(((D4ML)))) I know that part of taking care of myself is being with friendss and people that care for me. Hope your GAL includes all the people that think you are wonderful and special!!
((lauraoh)) - i saw your post on your thread. i will be over there soon.
it's been a tough long weekend here. i manage to do the things i wanted to do.
i did some baking - made my strawberry cheesecake cupcakes.
i also manage to hit the gym and did a lower body workout. i stepped on the scale and i'm a cool 100 lbs. i gained 5 lbs between march and now. it's due to the cardio from squash. (note to readers, this is the healthy way to stay lean & fit)
i have a physical scheduled for mid-september. i am a bit concerned. i have been trying to take care of myself in preparation for this. the last thing i want to know is my cholestrol or blood pressure is out of whack. i can't afford to be on meds.
i'm trying to slow down the backsliding. i have some great coaches who are helping me understand thing. i am my own worst/biggest enemy. it is my own lack of understanding of how people behave is what's making me not "get it".
i learned that i 'ambush' when i argue/fight. i come from all angles and i just smother my target. i talk over them and hence i don't listen to what the other person has to say. it's almost as if i don't care and i don't want to listen to what you have to say. i've already made up my mind that you are wrong and i'm just going to overpower you with my reasoning. you have one point to make, so i will come at you with 20. this is something i have to stop. it's no wonder my h said i never listen to him. i'm too busy ambushing.
h asking for a d did wake me up. i didn't listen to his needs or words .. and i focused on trying to fix our m through other aspects. like trying to start a family. i thought that was the 'thing' that was missing in our lives and having a child would make things better. i couldn't be more wrong. i kept trying to make us 'perfect' and didn't embrace the imperfections.
my h was crazy about me and loved me. but i became a different person. i saw the signs that he was falling out of love with me. heck, i even heard the words on one occasion. i became less loving towards him. i began to change and triggered a change in him (ie. falling out of love). i can "see" that now. but can you trigger a change again?
my weekend was full of anxiety. it was like re-living the last three months of anger. although still no tears. just lots of anger.
i did something different though. i threw on my sweats, and headed out to a local coffee shop (not a chain coffee shop). i thought about going to the gym, but i took the day off from the gym and just sat in the coffee shop and read my book. it felt good to be out, enjoying the crisp autumn weather, and having a organic tea.
i went out to see the progress on my new house. the land has been cleared. and markers have been put in. i'm getting pretty excited. i'm loving my kitchen so far.
things will be okay. i can do this. work is coming in steadily. and i have great friends who are helping me get through the rough patches.
Thanks for visiting my thread D4ML!! How did those muffins turn out? They sound awesome!
I don't know about where you are, but here in Florida we have the blood pressure cuffs in grocery stores--I had to check mine for my class and I still have really low blood pressure (but that is normal for me).
You will be very happy to figure out the things you did to get you here--it's empowering. The key being, it is only you that CAN change. The downward spiral didn't happen overnight, and it doesn't matter how it started--it took two.
Make sure to forgive yourself for whatever problems you brought--did you do it purposefully? Of course not. And neither did your H. We are all just human, bringing our baggage together, and doing our best--sometimes we do well, and sometimes we don't. The goal always is to do better as we learn how.
Keep in mind who you are, and more important, who you will be in the future.
