Hi everyone - newbie here - thanks for taking the time to read my story and offer any suggestions...
I found Divorce Remedy later than i should have. Apologies up front for my non-use of all the abbreviations - i'm sure i'll figure those out with time! Here's my story in a nutshell... Past 18 months have been awful...H and i in bad places - we literally never fought about anything, i found out too late that he's not a communicator, and the whole while as our lives got insane (birth of twins after significant infertility problems, him being self employed and recently needing to close up his business, me getting a new job that required a lot of my time and energy, holding down the household, etc...all within a 2 year span) i just "figured" he was holding tight and hanging in for the ride. Unfortunately, while i was hanging on knowing that "this too shall pass" - he was movign further and further away emotionally and physically from me. Things were SOO good for SOO many years that it's almost like he just didn't know how to cope with the rocky times. Anyhow, after the Godsent of Michelle's book, i literally had a transformation and awakening this past July 30th. Before that i was in a very very bad place and definitely hit my rockbottom in June. It was one of those things that "you know it when it happens". And, thanks to her book, i took charge of my life again, got myself back in order and felt like a person again. Unfortunately, H is not there. He hasn't hit his low yet, he's depressed, he's out of the house over 4 months and it's a million times worse than awful for me to keep all the balls in the air and be the mom our twins need. I've been a new person since July 30th - following all the techniques. i am in a really good place from that perspective but still missing him and our R enormously. Back to the "old me" - but in so many ways, a lot better than even the "old me" was!
So, fastforwarding to this past week... we had one appt with a mediator for a legal separation/divorce about a month or so ago - another appt was never set and i believed that was because he was seeing these dramatic changes in me that got him intrigued. I got a few (and i mean a few...not a lot!) positive vibes that i kept doing what i was doing...and hoping and praying too. Just this past week, he spoke about the mediator again and how (he thought) that i was going to set the next appt (not sure why i'd be doing that when i don't want a separation or divorce!!) and that if i wasn't, then he would. the next day when i had time to compose myself, i asked for 5 minutes of his time to talk about something in person (he hates doing the face to face thing since he moved out). After a flurry of excuses as to why he wouldn't be available that night, i started (unwillingly) to have the conversation over the phone. Long story longer, i very calmly, very patiently, very caringly indicated to him that I thought NOW was a really bad time to be makign life altering decisions like what he was doing. That he should get resources and help (although he was seeing a therapist for almost 8 months and seemed to get angrier and angrier after each week) to find the peace he needs and clarity of mind he deserves. He indicated that the separation would provide him with the ability "to move on" with his life. He kept saying how he wants to "live his life" and "go out" (with other women??? not sure although i did ask...) without worrying what's going to get back to me. He said he was depressed and lonely. He feels like he's a prisoner in his own apartment (not sure why...it's his choice to not do things - he's on his own now and i have the kids). So, i told him that after the mediator stuff is over (he can't say the words "divorce" or "separation" - and nor can he look me in the eyes when he sees me...), he'll be depressed, lonely AND divorced... I kept saying that he needs to find peace in himself before looking to find it outside of himself. I told him that he needs to stop focusing his energy on hating me and keeping the wall up that he's built around himself. To all this he responded (and i summarize) - "so what you want to do is wait another 6 months so that i can come back to you to tell you the same thing but so that it'll make you feel better???" essentially - he's checked out completely and it's all a game to him since he's just NOT going to try...
So, while i literally sit every night and re-read the book - go over all that i've highlighted, and remain hopeful...I'm so afraid that the journey is coming to an end. I know in my heart of hearts that he's making a terrible mistake. I believe in my soul that he's severly depressed. I believe that his therapist did more harm than good (one of those - "make yourself happy, forget everyone else" deals). He has patently over and over again refused marriage counseling. I don't believe (although i have questioned) that there's an OW. I feel like i'm working with an addict who is wholly incapable of making his own decisions because they will be bad ones until the addict is in recovery. I feel like hosting an intervention but know that since he's not talking to anyone (because he knows what they'll all say) that would get me nowhere. He's turning 42 in a few weeks...i believe some of this is a MLC (hates his job...had to close his own business a few years ago (hated me for that)...wants to feel in control of something, etc...). I believe that a lot of this is depression which is going unchecked. And, he's looking at our marriage (or lack thereof) as the thing to control. He said "it's over" once before and it's like he needs to stick to his original decision (for better or worse) so that he can "see something through" (if that makes any sense to you...it makes complete sense to me knowing how he is).
i feel helpless completely - and as a type A - that's not working so well for me.... HELP!!! I feel like the clock is ticking and i'm running out of time
together 17 years married 11 years 4 year old twins he moved out May 2010
Welcome. Keep doing what you are doing. I think you will find a lot of us here with similar, albeit unique versions of the same story. I have felt a similar sense of “I'm so afraid that the journey is coming to an end.” One this I am learning is that this is wrong. It has come to an end, or at least has taken a turn in another direction. So take advantage of it. Use the time not to worry about him, but think about what you want. For me it is happening very fast. I have realized that I didn’t start this, and while I feel my W is making a mistake, it is her mistake, all I can do is keep my $#!t together. If and when she is ready, then I can be her rock, but until she is ready I am moving forward with my life. It hasn’t taken long to realize that I’m not the only one who MUST change to make it work. If you feel at all like I do, you need to move forward, read, post, exercise, cook, clean, go to church, therapy. Whatever works for you. Do things that are unequivocally good for you. And remember that just because they are good for you does not mean you are being selfish. Getting a gym membership, taking a cooking class, or learning to fly fish are only good things. It is not a zero sum game. Expect the guilt trips, expect it to get worse. But do things you’ll be proud of. It will get better. You are on a new journey. Be open to letting your H join you on it, but realize you can’t force him.
Good luck.
M:37 W:34 M:4 years T:6 years No Kids A disclosed - 9/1/2010 W asks for separation - 10/19/2010 Moving on - 10/24/2010 A ends (and I believe her) - 12/2010 Content - 3/1/2011 Served - 3/18/2011 D Day - 6/20/2011
Welcome, although its unfortunate your sitch brought you here..you are in a good place. You will find help and support, but only "if" you want to put some elbow grease into it.
Reading the DR is a good start, I did the same, and too late as well. I made all the same mistakes everyone else made. I joined this group just recently and find the advice and support to be extremely valuable.
The key is YOU, not the H, not the R. As long as you focus on being OK in the end, you will. It may also have other rewards, it may not.
We all have our stumbles here and there - this place is good for a pick me up...a pep talk here and there. Be open and honest as you can be.
hi pinhead thanks for writing i've come really far, i believe, in a little over a month. I was doing it all wrong - the begging, pleading, reminding him of all the great memories, blah blah blah. i do believe i've let him go. BUT, becasue i still love him dearly and know it's important for our twins, i ALWAYS invite him to what we're doing. Very casually, very easy - it's always like "hey, the twins and i are headed to the beach, i've packed food/drinks/everything, all you need to do is show up - let me know if you're interested". and, unfortunately, 99.9% of the time, i get a "no" OR no reply at all/no acknowledgement. Very sad, really. But, i say this because it's part of my being at peace with myself and the decision. So, although i get rejected by him (as do our twins) on a very regular basis, i believe in my heart that it's because somewhere deep inside he is afraid (as i think i put in my first post) to FEEL anything for me...and i believe that he knows that hanging out or doing family things may lead him to realize i'm not the monster and source of all his sadness like he has convinced himself i am. So, while Michelle talks a lot about seeing what's working and doing more of that and less of what's not working - in reality I continue to invite very easily and casually because in my heart i need to do that for myself. In fact, just tonight - he picked up the kids from work and brought them to the house (where he doesn't live any longer) - when i got home about an hour later and started making dinner, he immediately started packing up to leave (not sure where he was in such a rush to go...). So at one point i said "you know you're welcome to stay for dinner, right?" To which he responded "yes i know, thanks" and proceeded to leave. Really sorry this is so long, but i'm at the beginning of the journey and want to lay it all out there for whatever help and support i can get from everyone out here. So, back to you response to my post - i'm proud of how i'm doing with "letting him go" - but it's just so incredibly difficult and frustrating when i look in the eyes of our twins and know what they deserve and that he's just falling so short on doing that as their dad.
together 17 years married 11 years 4 year old twins he moved out May 2010
Be open to letting your H join you on it, but realize you can’t force him.
Hi NFTP - thanks for writing. I am definitely investing in myself and twins. In fact my H commented to a number of friends (the few times that he has actually spoken to them about the situation - he believes that he doesn't have to "check in" with friends on the status of things and "answer to" anyone. I have told him that our dear friends CARE about us - that's the only reason they are interested...anyhow...) So, sorry, back to my comment - my H commented to a number of friends that he couldn't understand why I was so busy this summer - i always had plans with the twins. Sure - it's the summer, we have 4 year old twins - what do you want me to do - wallow in my own sorrow at home wtih them. It's my job and responsibility to take care of my family - and having a great fun summer for the twins was part of that. The other part was getting myself to a good place - at peace. And, i did both. Unfortunately, as even his dearest friends have commented to me, he doesn't see himself as responsible for any of this...he's just not THERE yet. So, yes, while I agree with your comment to keep doing what I'm doing and take care of myself and my responsibilities, it's just so deeply sad and hurtful that I see him depressed, not himself, losing everything that ever made him who he was - and, as you said - i CAN'T do anything about it. I can't force him to "snap out of it", to stay for our family, to not take away from our twins the life they deserve. I'm hanging onto the dream still for myself - and him - but in so many ways really moreso for the twins. They deserve it.
together 17 years married 11 years 4 year old twins he moved out May 2010
thanks keeter - I'm a strong, motivated person with a career and life of my own. That's what's helping me through this (I think about just how difficult it would be if I were home with the kids all day thinking about all this and mulling it over 100 different ways). I've always been independent, but believe that at one point that worked against my R because my H felt like I didn't "need him" anymore. As I told him as recently as a few months ago (before my "awakening and finding Michelle's book), while I was always independent, it always came down to the fact that everything was going to be ok (whatever it was we were working through) because I got to come home to him. That's what got me through every day. I have always believed that "things happen for a reason" - but it's just so incredibly hard to continue to beleive that when I have no control over any of this.
together 17 years married 11 years 4 year old twins he moved out May 2010
i have a few questions for anyone interested in responding.
first - i hear people talk about retrouvaille - i ordered some info online which just came the other day. How (if at all) do you recommend getting your WAH interested in attending something like that with the LBS when you're in my situation where he doesn't live here anymore and has stated he doesn't want the marriage anymore. Related to this - for those who have gone, is it any good??
second - when, if at all, is it the right time to give WAH a copy of the DR book?? We all almost to a fault indicate the same thing in our posts "wish i had found the book sooner..." - so in an effort to provide an "ahh haa" moment for our WAH/WAS - would it be so wrong to mail him a copy of the book and hope he reads it? As silly as it may sound, i really truly beleive that one read of the book and a whole lot of wasted time could be saved. Has anyone tried this??
third - WAH about two weeks ago tried to pick an argument about why i didn't set up another mediation appointment. He remembered our last conversation about this topic wholly incorrectly. I positively told him then that I would not be setting up another appointment with the mediator since that was something I did not want. He has no recollection of that. Anyhow, long story short, very calmly I explained how i thought he was not in a good place (during the same conversation he admitted to being depressed and lonely/unhappy/sad (one of those words)) and how i thought it was dangerous to make a life defining decision (move forward with legal separation/divorce) when his head wasn't clear and he wasn't in a good place. I talked to him about "learning a lot about myself" and the "things I did right and wrong" and how I "hit my rockbottom" and how if I had made finite decisions before I made my transformation it would have been an awful decision. It really appeared to me that he wasn't listening (even though he didn't want to have a conversation in person and therefore this was all over the phone). He said he would take care of setting up the appointment. The only other thing he said was something to the effect of "what don't you understand? so you want me to wait another six months only to tell you the same thing??" That proved to me once again that he just isn't in a place to make it work. He's more interested in putting all his energy into keeping up the "wall" than actually feeling anything. But, almost two weeks later, he has yet to make the mediation appointment. But, on the same note, he seems more distant than ever. Thoughts?? I'm so afraid that he's going to get so used to not having the "family life" that we once had - so used to "being alone" as his new "normal" that he will just give up totally (as if he hasn't already). So, how do I know that things are working the way I hope versus the risk that my actions are telling him that I just don't care and I/the twins are OK on our own without him. That seems like a very delicate balance - and when the WAH is not willing to communicate about anything important, how do I know which one it is??
Oh yeah, and WAH has been seeing a counselor for about 8 or so months now. Dare I say that he seems angrier now - 8 months later - than he was when he started? It frightens me what this counselor is doing to him/telling him. It can't possibly be "keep your wife in limbo"...
Many thanks...
together 17 years married 11 years 4 year old twins he moved out May 2010
I have a bunch of people who work for me... WAH seems "overly concerned" about one such person who happens to be a guy who he has heard me reference (and the twins reference) over the course of the past 6 months or so. Twins know him b/c i bring them to work every so often. Fast forward to tonight - i took twins away for a Fri through Sunday getaway. This guy who works for me - his parents own a few houses on the water that they rent out for the summer season - well the renters were gone and he had offered it up to me as a get away. I took him up on it and went there with the twins. Had fun - all good (and no, he didn't show up - he's got a family of his own - totally platonic). Anyhow, when i saw WAH tonight, he asked about the weekend and i said it was fun, twins had fun, blah blah. Then he says - oh, was it his (coworker) house? i said, actually, it's his parents - they own a few houses on the water. WAH says "do they see him much" - and i thought he said "do you see him much" - which i thought was odd because the guy works for me - of course i see him all the time. So i responded - yes, i see him every day - he works for me. WAH clarified - no, do they see him much? I said, no - not at all. He then said - well, they seem to bring him up in conversation on a regular basis. Now, i think this is really odd. First, because they see him as much as they see my other coworkers. He's got young kids too - so perhaps that's why they remember him over the other coworkers who don't have young kids. Second, i think this was said to get a rise out of me...which it didn't. So, i responded - well, he does work for me and i do bring the kids to work.
The only reason why i find all this interesting is because if you really didn't care a darn about me, why would you care who i was keeping company with (so long as that company didn't negatively impact our kids)?? So, i'm viewing this as a good sign??
together 17 years married 11 years 4 year old twins he moved out May 2010
annie, sorry you are here, it is a good place to be under the circumstances...
NO, DO NOT give him the DR book. I cant recall anyone having a good response by sharing books/articles etc. You would also be giving him inside information about your "goals"...
Retrouvaile I think needs both people to go with open mind and heart. Your H sounds like he is in the middle of the "fog",detached and "feels" determined. These of course do change and that is what you want happening but right now..., I dont know. Check out a thread on piecing regarding Retro.
Regarding your third "issue"... Well, I've struggled with that a lot, most of us do. You are afraid. My H seemed depressed. Lost weight, was not himself, had no life in him for months. I thought it was work, the kids etc etc. When I started pushing, MONTHS later, I came across a woman's name that he disregarded as just an girl from work and I believed him... (remember this).
He convinced our closest friends, his father, sister, relatives, anyone that aproached him there was NO other woman. I was watching my H SLIPPING AWAY convinced he was depressed (his mom death etc ect seemed good enough reasons).
Long story short: he had a passionate love affair for years (2,5). I was a fool. I dont buy the depression that easily. Men dont leave their families without having another woman waiting. Make sure you know the whole truth.
I dont have time to post much right now. I will try to follow your story.Dont be afraid. Fear is a bad advisor. Nothing "worse" can happen if you think about it. You'll be fine. K
