loved steve mcqueen the actor. you sir are a ribald fellow. for the most part i am not interested in other women @ this time. like most men, sure i check out a passing woman but the one i want for me is the one that does not want me. go figure. so like life.
to your 2nd point, speculation i suppose. i know from some of her behaviors, she fancies herself to be rather attractive (which truthfully she is) and wonders what it would be like to be with other men, not necessarily all physical but certainly that is probably part of it. that she has stated to me.
and as for karate? GREAT work out. no mirrors in our dojo (which is in a church hall LOL). no nonsense. the sensei asks for you to leave your problems at the door, with him, focus just on the routine... for a man in my sitch could not ask for better therapy. : )
omg sandi, thanks a million for your words of wisdom. i have read and re-read your posts again and again. i think you are right about my eldest D. i do not wish to strip away from my wife the respect that my children have for her. she cherishes them completely. should i be so lucky. however much we might be in contention now, and i can honestly say that i think she is so confused what with this new EA, possible PA, which she continues to deny despite my knowing to the contrary with the help of keylogger...
in so far as motherhood? fair question. but i think my wife does care. in her recent keylog entry she wrote a small thing about wanting to check on her to make sure she was in bed before calling the OM. i know she does not want her or the other children to even know.
you are right. i am feeling extremely emotional. went to MT today which seemed to go well. 1st time w/ new counselor. he asked our goals: mine, stay together and hers, "i've had enough." ugh. agree with continuing to snoop. a friend of mine tried to tell me otherwise but ultimately i think she has to face what she is doing. it is NOT right. it is wrong. plain and simple. i suspect the other mine might even have 4 children himself!! what are these people thinking?
you absolutely have my attn, thank you again. i should probably head over to the infidelity forum as much as it might turn my stomach... i have been reading on some sites (www.marriagebuilders.com) for one that seems to push the idea of building yourself up to a position where your spouse can hopefully recognize your value. how can an EA/PA substitute for a marriage of 15 y w/ 5 children? wanna pull my hair out when i ask that question. everything seems as if it moving beyond my control. have to try and take it one day at a time. breath slower, no? : ) rambling now. thanks again.
i think i have figured out who the OM is. it is the guy from FB who lives in Florida but grew up in NY and went to the same elementary school as her. there are a whole bunch of friends from the same school she is friends with. it all makes sense...
i have been locked out of FB for months. he lives in FL. we visit FL and i return home to work while she stays w/ my mom in Weston near Fort Lauderdale. on her return home, i find out she has been looking at homes up in areas where this guy lives (i think they actually met up once while she was down there) as well as jobs (jacksonville). i confronted her bc she has been sooooo hot to trot to move. could this thing been going on for that long? can EA's go on that long? prob one or two physical encounters, no?
it would explain the mysterious texts in Florida as well some unaccounted time when she was down there w/ my mom watching my kids (several hours looking at "real estate," more like him checking hers out, the MF).
that was in June. 40th bday in July. nice small bash. she had a good time. i bet. about 1 month after bday, increasing emotional detachment, no more ML, no more sig physical contact, distancing, erasing histories (i am not entirely sure how long that could have been going on although i have been careful to check, yet suspect i missed on that one) on computer which i asked her about w/ her playing coy...
finally find some entries via a logger. when i first read it, she commented on some picture where "you do not look like a girl." i started looking at photos of guy and saw recent caption where his mother said he "looked like a girl." bingo!!!
so this MF, literally, is the one. and the best? he has 4 kids!! they talk as if they are planning their getaway together. after reading thru all of the other entries, i can either take the gucci approach (which has been difficult bc when i have asked her about the possible EA w/ me even dropping this guys name she stonewalls and absolutely denies it, STRONGLY) or the puppy/allen approach. as much as i want to take the long term gentle approach her recent hints on wanting a D possibly although she started MC just yest "bc i have been waiting many years and this is it." saw a lawyer which i now believe. holy S!
i am feeling so torn. i am emotional. i cry when i think of my kids, where i have come. i am enjoying every moment we have as a family, like today hanging out w/ another family we are close to at this pool club.
i have seen advice to not worry about any OM, especially from MWD and other sites, bc need to worry only about me. make myself better and show her the light, but does that work. only if i detach and leave home which i will not do bc i think it is harder to come back once you do and besides i pay the mortgage so she will be the one who has to go.
i am still gathering data. but i think what little i have might be enough. i can lay it out for the OMW and his family. let's see how this F likes that. cannot believe that these people think they are going to be able to make a life together w/ 5 kids of ours and 4 kids of OM and OMW!! can it be so? does this sort of BS happen? successfully?
ugh. 5 kids. hard to leave the home w/ them to care for from age 4 to 15, but if it has to be done for the sake of my marriage (especially as she has said she is DONE).... she has more or less intimated that she will not budge but so be it. i can be the one to go. lots of planning to do. do not know where to begin. one of the largest and most important undertakings of my life thus far, not trying to be too dramatic either.
am in middle of reading penny tuby's book. wow. awesome stuff. from intervention phase to protection phase. i know understand what u mean TH. thanks.
I think one of the hardest things for the LBH is to realize this is not the girl he M. She is not his W or the mother of his children. She is totally opposite from the way she used to be and especially her moral character.
You cannot talk to her or treat her as if she has any logic b/c that has disappeared. In many ways, she must be dealt with in the same manner that a rebellious teenager would.
Quote:
how can an EA/PA substitute for a marriage of 15 y w/ 5 children?
Have you read how the brain of the WAW actually changes? There is a chemical that imatates the "in love" feelings, and that chemical is so addictive that she will do almost anything to have it. Yes, it can cause a wife, and even a grandmother, who has been M for many years to act as if she's lost her mind. She will put this "feel good" chemical above everything. That is why I believe in "tough love" and making her experience "loss" in her life if she choses OM/EA over her M/family.
Quote:
could this thing been going on for that long? can EA's go on that long?
I have read that some EA's have lasted for years.
Quote:
when i have asked her about the possible EA w/ me even dropping this guys name she stonewalls and absolutely denies it, STRONGLY) or the puppy/allen approach. as much as i want to take the long term gentle approach her recent hints on wanting a D possibly although she started MC just yest "bc i have been waiting many years and this is it." saw a lawyer which i now believe. holy S!
Stop asking her if she's in an A or if there's OM. Of course she denies it! As long as you act as if you do not know anything, then she gets the best of both worlds. That's big cake eating.
Explain something to me, okay? Why do you want to take the long, gentle approach?
Quote:
I have seen advice to not worry about any OM,
He is a preditor and could ruin your M and destroy your family. How do you feel about that?
You need to decide which plan you will take and stick with it, instead of reading so many different approaches and thus getting more confused.
I love MWD's advice for hurting M's, but she doesn't give much detail about infidelity. I believe it has to be hit head on instead of the pussy-foot approach. But you have to know if you have the guts for the head-on tough approach. You must know exactly what to do and how to do it or it will be a disaster. That's why I said not to do anything until you had all the facts from Puppy, Allen, Gucci, or whoever you are following.
Quote:
cannot believe that these people think they are going to be able to make a life together w/ 5 kids of ours and 4 kids of OM and OMW!! can it be so? does this sort of BS happen? successfully?
You are using a logical approach but these people are not logical! They are living a fantasy. In the mind of your W, everything will just be wonderful. People do M everyday that have these many children, but is it success? Of course not! They have destroyed many lives in order to fulfill their selfish fantasy! That doesn't stop them from doing it. Stop using logic in trying to figure out her thoughts.
As for the MC, I don't see how any C will help the M as long as there is a third party involved. Have you read Allen's steps in how to bust an affair?
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
I think one of the hardest things for the LBH is to realize this is not the girl he M. She is not his W or the mother of his children. She is totally opposite from the way she used to be and especially her moral character.
You cannot talk to her or treat her as if she has any logic b/c that has disappeared. In many ways, she must be dealt with in the same manner that a rebellious teenager would.
Quote:
how can an EA/PA substitute for a marriage of 15 y w/ 5 children?
Have you read how the brain of the WAW actually changes? There is a chemical that imatates the "in love" feelings, and that chemical is so addictive that she will do almost anything to have it. Yes, it can cause a wife, and even a grandmother, who has been M for many years to act as if she's lost her mind. She will put this "feel good" chemical above everything. That is why I believe in "tough love" and making her experience "loss" in her life if she choses OM/EA over her M/family.
Quote:
could this thing been going on for that long? can EA's go on that long?
I have read that some EA's have lasted for years.
Quote:
when i have asked her about the possible EA w/ me even dropping this guys name she stonewalls and absolutely denies it, STRONGLY) or the puppy/allen approach. as much as i want to take the long term gentle approach her recent hints on wanting a D possibly although she started MC just yest "bc i have been waiting many years and this is it." saw a lawyer which i now believe. holy S!
Stop asking her if she's in an A or if there's OM. Of course she denies it! As long as you act as if you do not know anything, then she gets the best of both worlds. That's big cake eating.
Explain something to me, okay? Why do you want to take the long, gentle approach?
Quote:
I have seen advice to not worry about any OM,
He is a preditor and could ruin your M and destroy your family. How do you feel about that?
You need to decide which plan you will take and stick with it, instead of reading so many different approaches and thus getting more confused.
I love MWD's advice for hurting M's, but she doesn't give much detail about infidelity. I believe it has to be hit head on instead of the pussy-foot approach. But you have to know if you have the guts for the head-on tough approach. You must know exactly what to do and how to do it or it will be a disaster. That's why I said not to do anything until you had all the facts from Puppy, Allen, Gucci, or whoever you are following.
Quote:
cannot believe that these people think they are going to be able to make a life together w/ 5 kids of ours and 4 kids of OM and OMW!! can it be so? does this sort of BS happen? successfully?
You are using a logical approach but these people are not logical! They are living a fantasy. In the mind of your W, everything will just be wonderful. People do M everyday that have these many children, but is it success? Of course not! They have destroyed many lives in order to fulfill their selfish fantasy! That doesn't stop them from doing it. Stop using logic in trying to figure out her thoughts.
As for the MC, I don't see how any C will help the M as long as there is a third party involved. Have you read Allen's steps in how to bust an affair?
I'm not hi-jacking this thread.
Sandi2 - I LOVE YOUR POST! I don't know if you are reading my sitch or have followed it, but your insight today, right now, on this post is so damn helpful. I just wanted to say thank you and would invite you to give me a 2x4 on my post.
I just ran into my W and the OM, when she blatantly denied it about 3 hours before. I completely busted her lie and really was curious as to what she might be thinking. I personally would love to hear your "tough love" advice.
thanks a million sandi again for your words. it is funny how life is. came home late last night from working 2nd shift to find the whole fam camped out in 3 season porch. place for me too. nice family thing. morning started off alright but as God would have it, my wayward wife and I end up in BR around 5p talking while little one naps on bed. she continues to imply i am crazy w/ my accusations. i was intending on busting her in a few days but i thought there is no time like the present. boom. in a very factual way, i laid out my evidence. airtight. she became quiet. still denying it. went downstairs for dinner. i kept on commenting on things indirectly. she held on.
after dinner, i decided to email the OM a letter like Penny Tupy recommends. i sent it to his wife also. not even 15 min later she calls me. she does not sound surprised. i am hearing this man roaring in background. absolute denial.
he wants to talk to me. no. i will not i tell her. i lay out the evidence. she asks for hardcopy. i email the pdf files. she calls me back, we talk. finally he also tries calling me 4-6 times. leaves voicemail. "call me so we can talk like men." f-u. i text him back and tell him that "u r not a man. i owe u zero. you are not worthy of respect. you are beneath me. your behavior was contemptible. you prey on women." i will not talk on phone trying to reason w/ this fool. apparently his wife tells me over several diff calls and emails that he has already done this at least twice w/ 2 other women who also went to grammar school with this fool just like my wife did.
ultimately he finally admits the whole thing to his wife. he lives in FL, we r in CT. he was working in NY for the past 6 months w/ marriage trouble too. now he is apparently coming back for a job. what a mess. i can only hope that i will not have to pursue this legally. i am not sure if my wife intends on aggressively pursuing divorce but we live in small town. nice. good schools. she is well known. ironic that she is a catechist! it is a bad tv movie and would be funny if it were not my life.
puppy and allen have it right. thank u a million allen for the penny tupy refs. awesome stuff. i read it twice. part 1 anyway. unfortunately i had to accelerate the intervention and would have preferred to have family close by or present. i already wrote long email w/ all evidence. i can add pdf's to it as well.
i did not lose my cool at all. the kids were all around and they were joking that daddy is a stalker. little do they know and may they never will until later on in life? u r so right. i keep on telling myself that his creature now asleep is not that girl i proposed to and married. how else could u explain someone who hooks up on the internet w/ a married father of four, contemplates moving out of state w/ our 5 kids to be closer to him, all the while leading the good life of mother/catechist/former member of pto executive board/member of the junior women's club? it IS an addiction. TOTALLY agree.
MWD's take on infidelity did not seem right to me either. i am no expert but hoping that something like this would go away w/ my wife finally recognizing my 180s? no. too much pie in the sky in that one.
i am not quite in protection yet. have to get the word out. i will spread it on facebook to all of his friends as well as his family. i will try to find where his new job will be and call that employer. i will tell our family and some friends as well.
last thing. her really close friend called this am and i picked up the phone. i tried conveying my concerns about someone else to her. she would have none of it. well. tomorrow will be diff bc i have the proof to back it up. and the confession as well which the OMW sent to me a little while ago. he fessed up.
if he does end up coming to NY, what can i do? she is crazed and illogical. not thinking straight. i know this. will I really need to seek legal counsel? ultimately if D is in the cards, and may God will it to not be so, i would prefer no lawyers bc we have no big assets other than our house and the equity line will wipe out any profit thus zero to minimal $.
i am thinking about suspending her phone service and gym membership which she cherishes. she really loves this boot camp thing. i do not want to seem too vindictive but... i think she is also using a prepaid phone bc his wife confirmed a local number w/ our area code in her husband's phone records. she was very nice and accepting. she said 3 strikes here so...
i am sorry this post is so long but cannot help it. no one i can talk to right now. i do not know where to stop. m tired but fingers have life of their own i guess. it is lonely and agonizing sometimes to be LBS. tough love works. hopefully.
i am sorry this post is so long but cannot help it. no one i can talk to right now. i do not know where to stop. m tired but fingers have life of their own i guess. it is lonely and agonizing sometimes to be LBS. tough love works. hopefully.
Hang in there friend. All weekend was horrible for me. Thanks to this place you can get release. It is agonizing, but if we keep doing what works we'll be stronger I think. How can we not become the best Husbands ever after this crap? lol
