I'm 35. Wife is 34. Been married barely a year. Together for 4. Known each other for 10. Living apart from my wife right now. I read the post on WAW and that is my wife right now. I haven't seen her in a month. We've had mundane maintenance type texts and emails but no conversations. I sent her a 14 page letter apologizing and accepting responsibility for not being there for her in our M like I should have been, for acting selfishly and immaturely, and for not being present. I expressed my love for her, my regret, my belief that we can fix things and be better together, but then ultimately said that if she was truly done and didn't want to work on us, then she needed to tell me and ask me for a divorce otherwise I'd keep trying and loving her and doing whatever it takes to make us work. I sent this prior to our first conversation in a month so I could listen to her better and so she knew where I was. She canceled our meeting and I never knew what she wanted to speak about. She exploded that the timing of my letter was the ultimate in selfishness and asked me not to contact her until she reached out to me. I do not regret sending the letter as I laid everything on the table and fully owned up to my shortcomings and lack of effort in our marriage. I also showed how our breakdown happened and our mutual responsibility for it happening and snowballing (though I admitted my part was greater.) What now? I reached out after a week to apologize again. I feel like the writing is on the wall that she wants a divorce but won't ask me for it. I love her and do not want a divorce and fully believe that these moments can create the solid foundation to a marriage. But she does not believe I can change whereas now I understand how to. She thinks she made a mistake get married and that she lost herself in us. She thinks it's now too little too late. We've been separated for two months. How long do I give her? How do I demonstrate my commitment, my willingness to try, my presence and engagement, and my love without crowding and pressuring her? Or do I try and pick up my pieces and move on with life without her and slowly give up the hope that she'll realize the good and love in us?
Bklynt - I'm sorta in the same boat right now. W has move out. She knows where I stand, which is similar to you. I'm trying hard to not contact her, no email, no text, and only wait for her to contact me.
Bklynt, I feel like we are sole mates here. Same story, about the same timeline. I’m sure we could commiserate over a few beers. First, it is not about the timeline. Or giving up. Or fault. Her “how could you be so insensitive” line speaks volumes. I don’t know what you wrote. I’m sure I’ve started the same letter a dozen times. It probably has lots of “Yes, I see that I haven’t been a good husband. . . . .I want to change . . . . I don’t like myself when I am that way . . . . I know we can be better. . . .“ This is all true. I feel exactly the same way. I feel like an idiot when I realize I didn’t buy my wife an X-mas gift after we agreed “no gifts this year”. I’ve got tons of those stories. But what is done is done and can’t be changed. You will get a lot of help here. Mostly for me, it helps to keep busy, ready stories, see my situation isn’t unique. At All. I expect that some of the techniques here will help, others won’t and most will just be irrelevant. The key thing is to learn. So, you’ve taken the first step. You admit you have a problem. Now what? For me it is to come to the realization that things now are different. There is no hiding it or denying it. Maybe you will reconcile. Maybe there will be a D. Who knows. It is not in your power to decide. Influence yes, prevent no. I think of it like a war. At the beginning we think “shock and awe” big air strikes will show her how much I love her and that I can and want to change. But it doesn’t work that way. This is a ground campaign. So settle in for the long haul. Taking the analogy (perhaps a little bit too far) further. Establish bases. Find things to occupy yourself, get stable. Think about the things you did before the marriage. Do them, unless this includes chasing everyone in a skirt. Build yourself up. The gym, church, night classes etc. Anything to make you more stable and not focus on her. Once you have built your bases, the ground war begins. You can’t win this until the locals (her and common friends) are on your side. Get them there by being strong, fun and attractive. Be the guy you were when you met, not to spite her, but because you like that guy.
From there, who knows? Good luck!
M:37 W:34 M:4 years T:6 years No Kids A disclosed - 9/1/2010 W asks for separation - 10/19/2010 Moving on - 10/24/2010 A ends (and I believe her) - 12/2010 Content - 3/1/2011 Served - 3/18/2011 D Day - 6/20/2011
I'm sorry you are here and hurting. I hate to ask this, but unfortunately reality hurts...Do you think or know if there is someone else?
What are your shortcomings? Please elaborate on what her complaints are and what YOU felt you did wrong.
The Vets will need details to really help you. Also it's the weekend and it's a little slow here, but will pick back up this week. Ok? So be patient.
My advice to you right now is to STOP pursuing. Give her space and DO NOT make any contact until you get some advice from here. POST ALL YOUR FEELINGS HERE.
I'm going to bump up and link a DB List for you to read. It's VERY important that you follow the steps right away, ok? Be patient and try to elaborate your situation.
So, here is that long list that I told you about. Don't freak out about it. It is simply a short cut guide of DBing. I think that looking over it (after reading the book, of course) doesn't take as long as trying to re-read some chater in the book. It helps keep certain DB principles planted in our minds. BTW, this list is really designed for a person who is really trying to draw their spouse back to them and it can be for a couple who are under the same roof or separated, you just have to judge for yourself.
UDATED LIST
1.Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore! This turns the spouse completely off! 2. No frequent phone calls to spouse.......let him/her be the one to call you. Then don't try to hang on to your spouse through conversation.....instead, you say good-bye first. 3. Do not point out good points in marriage or try to get him/her to read marriage books, look at your M pictures, etc. Especially, do not get him/her to read the DB/DR book. That is for you only! 4. Do not follow your spouse around the house like a puppy dog trying to get his/her time and attention. 5. Do not encourage talk about the future. They don't want to think about a future with you at the moment, so stay clear of that subject. 6. Do not ask for help from family members or friends. Don't discuss private matters with them that would upset your spouse. 7. Do not ask for reassurances (That is showing neediness and being clingy.) Show self-respect and self-confidence. 8. Do not buy gifts to make "brownie points". (Can't buy his/her love and affection.) 9. Do not schedule dates together at this point. (That is pursuing.) Save for later when the R is much better. 10.Do not spy on spouse by checking emails, phone bills, etc. (Not good for you and will make matters worse.) 11.Do not declare "I Love You" (It is being "pushy" and trying to make your spouse say it back to you......he/she will despise you for it.) 12.Act "as if" you are moving on with your life with or without them and that you are going to be okay. Keep a good attitude. 13.Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive at all times! In other words, be the best you can be and look the best you can look at all times. Even when wearing jeans and T-shirt, wear good cologne, b/c it does cause the spouse to take notice. 14.Don't sit around waiting on your spouse to see what kind of mood he/she is in or what he/she is going to do or say – get busy, think of things to do. Go to church, go out with friends, etc. in order to get a life for yourself without waiting on your wife/husband.....but it is okay to invite them, just don't act as if it will change your plans if they do or don't go. 15.When at home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation---then don't, wait for him/her) then, be rather scarce or with your words, but don't sound rude or too short like you are mad. If your spouse asks what's wrong....just say "nothing" and have a pleasant expression on your face. Keep it short and simple. Don't get into an argument! Stay polite and don’ t act like you are pouting. Use poise and class. This does not mean to act like you aren’t speaking, but don’t be overly talkative. 16.If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK THEM NOTHING!! No matter what time he/she comes home! You are giving them space and asking no questions! You enjoy your time with your kids, friends, etc. Remember, you are getting a life, also. 17.You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse. 18.Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what he/she will be missing. (But never ask him/her if he/she has noticed any changes!!) This is important! If you do, then you have blown it. 19.No matter what your emotions are TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. (Use balance here and don’t act like a fool trying to show “happiness”) This can confuse some of them (which is actually good) b/c it is not what they expected. Show your spouse someone he/she would want to be around all the time, somebody that can be attractive and fun to be with. That somebody is you! Don't overkill in your attempts to outshine another person your spouse may be having an A with (if there is OP in the picture) to the point of looking like your attempts are "fake" b/c your spouse will see through all of that. 20.All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while) so this takes patient on your behalf. 21.Never lose your cool! Don't let your spouse trap you into a fight. Don't take her/his bait.....leave the room or the house for a while, if you have to, in order to avoid a fight. 22.Don't be overly enthusiastic, don't over-kill; in anything you do b/c it will come across as fake. 23.Do not argue about how your spouse feels about something (it only makes his/her feelings more negative.) Only they know how they feel! 24.Be patient......very, very patient. Give your spouse space and time. When you pull back, it will draw them towards you. It feels opposite of what you want to do, but it works! 25.Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. Look them in the eyes when they talk to you. Do not interrupt them when they are speaking and stop what you may be working on to look at them when they talk. This shows them that you really care about what they are saying. 26.Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out (or scream and yell). 27.Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil). This is for your health's sake. 28.Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly. Read self help books, inspirational books or listen to tapes. They are for you only. 29.Know that if you can do 180's, your smallest CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write. 30.Do not be openly show that you are "desperate" or "needy" even when you are hurting more than ever and truly feel desperate and needy. This is a large turn-off for your spouse. 31.Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse, instead, focus on them. 32.Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because he/she is hurting and scared. 33.Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel. 34.Do not ask your spouse if he/she has noticed your changes. Those changes are for you and for the rest of your life...with or without your spouse. If it is just to get your spouse back...they won't last and the same problems will return. 35.Do not send TM's or emails throughout the day unless absolutely necessary. 36. It is best to stay away from the bar scenes where other problems easily arise. 37. NEVER LIE! When getting a life or trying to be mysterious….do not lie in order to be able to do it. You can be somewhat vague about what your plans are by not revealing all the details, but never even resemble lying to your spouse! Lying is not Dbing, so if you cannot carry out GAL on a particular time schedule without lying about what you are doing, then keep the trust and don’t lie to your spouse. 38. Do not keep company with the opposite sex. Do not turn to old friends of the opposite sex to talk to about your problems or just to hang out with them. This is not getting a life! This is not acceptable for a MR in trouble and could lead to you getting involved in an EA. If you cannot have your spouse present while you are with the friend of the opposite sex…..then you do not need to be with that friend. That includes any type of regular calls, emails, TM’s, etc., with friends of the opposite sex without the spouse present. You may not understand the seriousness, but it would be like pouring gasoline on a fire. 39. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes.
As you can see you are not alone. My W left me on July 4th and I have only recieved 2 emails from her since. And I can see that you have reacted as a LBS, pleading, begging, willing to change. I recommend reading as many posts as possible to understand what worked and whar didn't work as well as DR.
I am still figuring out my W's temperature, but one thing I did immdeiately was to reflect and understand my issues. I am working with an IC now, however understand that it takes two to make a M work so your W has some responsibility in getting were you two are now.
I have since pulled back and not pursuing my W. I recommend any conversations with your W that you do not bring up R, M or D. Give her time and space and understand patience...believe me you will need it!
Those are the only two things I've seen work. If #1 turns up nothing, then proceed to #2b. And in the meantime, GAL your ass off, and become the better option. Best case, you'll attract them back, and at a minimum you'll become a better person that will be more attractive to SOMEBODY in your next relationship.
I'm 35. Wife is 34. Been married barely a year. Together for 4. Known each other for 10. Living apart from my wife right now. I read the post on WAW and that is my wife right now. I haven't seen her in a month. We've had mundane maintenance type texts and emails but no conversations. I sent her a 14 page letter apologizing and accepting responsibility for not being there for her in our M like I should have been, for acting selfishly and immaturely, and for not being present.
Wow, 14 pages. That's a helluva lot of screw-ups, and lack of "presence" for just 4 years. Did you address things that you GENUINELY believe in your own heart of hearts were your shortcomings, or were you trying to address the complaints that she gave you when she bombed you?
Thanks all for the words of wisdom. This is a painful time that keeps my head spinning and heart aching for my wife. Gonna respond to everyone below. Thx again.
@Not From These Part - thanks for the ground war analogy. I have definitely done the air strike and it made me laugh to read that in your post. Patience is unfortunately not my virtue but I am trying to develop more of it. My fear is that I'll keep holding on to something that she is never coming back from and that I'm ignoring the writing on the wall even though she hasn't asked for a D (yet).
@FaithnAK - Thanks for the post. I think there may be someone else but to what degree I am not sure. At the very least she was emotionally cheating on me by flirting with a guy at work who is 8 years younger than her who was her "work husband". She has sent inappropriate suggestive emails / texts that I shouldn't know about but do. I had hoped that it was just a crush and didn't address properly except in the letter I sent her I called it out as inappropriate even if our M was frustrating and even if we weren't doing well together. I told her in the letter that I can not force her to love me, force her to forgive me, or force her to work on our relationship. I also said that she was always free to choose who she wants and so she's free to choose him. Obviously I hope that's not ultimately the case. Is there anything I can do directly to intervene without being clingy / desperate or is it all indirect work on myself stuff? The degree of her anger right now I think is to justify and suppress her guilt.
My shortcomings - From her it's that I'm thoughtless, selfish, and immature. That's I'm disengaged from her and life in general. That she parents me and I'm not a man / the man she thought I was in terms of taking care of things around the house and taking responsibility. Also that I didn't make her my top priority always and didn't stand by her side emphatically.
From me - I did act selfishly, thoughtlessly, and immaturely at times. She definitely did put more into maintaining our relationship than I did through my laziness and also through my frustration. She needs thoughtful deeds done to feel loved. I need words and affection and so both of us gave what we needed and not what the other person needed. So I was thoughtless except when she blew up every few month I would make an effort to do the things she wanted and needed but then she would not be happy because they were reactionary instead of by my nature. And so she ultimately stopped nagging, stopped communicating or diverting attention which increased my frustration and led to her seeing everything I did as selfish, immature, and thoughtless and me seeing her as negative and miserable which was a loss of respect on both sides. My other shortcomings are I tend to get defensive, I too avoid conflict but not to the same degree as her, I stopped nurturing our relationship like I did when we first started dating, I didn't do enough to ease her daily work stress / life stress.
@Hurtinhartford - I barely made it a week with no communication before I had to send an email. This sux. I do believe, not sure if it's right though, that you do have to do all the pursuing things at first so that your W knows where you stand before cutting off communication and doing the last resort technique. Hang in there!
@ PuppyDogTails - Thx for the links. The 14 page letter wasn't all about my screw ups. It was 5 main chunks. I had to be diplomatic and not pushy. Had to be loving but firm. Had to accept responsibility and also hold a mirror up. I wrote it over 3-4 weeks and reread it every few days to make sure it still held true and edited accordingly. Essentially there were 5 main chunks. I told her I loved her and why I loved her. I apologized and took responsibility. I addressed our breakdown. I reasserted my belief that we could fix it and grow together. And then lastly, I said that if she has no intention of ever doing so, then she needed to let me go and she needed to tell me. I let her go free but maintained my full love and commitment to her and to us. So I think unknowingly I did 2b on our post already. Will check it out.
