How should I proceed now? Is there hope?

[NotCrackingUp]

Well, he arrived for lunch with the kids and myself.I'd kept busy all morning and also tried to look as well as possible. He was not very cocky or happy with himself, a sick stomach and sore head. The kids were laughing and telling him about things they did at home and school during the week. They look so relieved and happy when he's here, I know they still hope he'll be back. He asked them questions and also questioned me about my new school. Seemed subdued. I thought he saw the family life he used to love - at least that's what he used to say - going on without him.

He actually washed up afterwards (!), a thing he rarely did before.He left just now - wants a sleep, he says. Looks tired and not very happy. Kissed me (French greeting even to lepers) on arrival and on leaving. He hasn't always done that recently. I managed to stay light and general, didn't follow him round the house while he was here, gave him space.When he'd left, the childen told me they thought he was having second thoughts. This came spontaneously. They're actually quite happy just with me: he was away for work (and other activities) so much the last year that they've got used to being with mum alone, but they'd so love to have him back.

This is so hard. I cried myself cross-eyed last night, missing him. Better this morning and now, but I still love him dearly.
He has done and said a rake of very rum things in the past 4 months, but I can easily separate that from the man I married, and with whom I had such a close relationship for years. When the kids were born, when they were small, how devoted and loving he was to them. We had a wonderful intimate life, even if it had its ups and downs due to work pressures in the last year or so.
at some point, he stopped seeing me as wife, became "available" in his head and was snapped up.The hardest part to accept, I've said it over and over but it's chewing me up, is the physical rejection of me. That he needs time alone, that he even needs to be with OW is hard, but I can take it. It's just that, if I go on what he's said and how he's been, he just suddenly couldn't be intimate with me anymore, feel loving towards me, no will even to try. So he ran.

I'm not a monster. Even when I was chubby, he used to say he loved my curves. Now I'm down to the weight I was before we married. My body's not the body of an athlete or a 20 year old, but it's ok. We used to know every inch of each other, why the sudden aversion? My sister says it could be he's steeling himself not to feel anything, so he won't go back on his decision. I feel it so cruelly, especially as our sex-life was very active ( on his initiation and on mine) right up to the night before the bomb was dropped.

Any similar experiences out there? Is it possible to be disgusted by someone overnight? Can it come back? We were good friends, I'd been more than understanding about the affair. I was a bit weepy, but never condemned him. I apologized for what had hurt him and accepted that we'd both functioned badly under stress. What could I have done other than that? What can I do now? I feel sure that a big part of what made him run was not wanting to deal with confused desires, not being able to forget the OW.I'd love to hear from others who might shed some light on this. Can I still hope? I'm trying to evacuate the negative feelings so we can get back to being friends. I'm in bits, but he seems even more fragile. I love and want to help him. But I also want him BACK.I feel like sending him an e-mail and telling him how much I want him and miss him. But I'll try to hold out.
Please help.
NotCrackingUp -yet

[kara]

NCU

The goal of being here is to save your M if possible but definitely to save yourself.

We have all been where you are. It is mind boggling to face the rejection, the loss of friendship, the loss of desire. Can it come back? Of course. If both parties want it to and do the work.

Right now your H doesn't want the M and hasn't indicated that he wants to do the work. He knows how you feel about him. Granted, you know your H and we do not. But based on the collective experiences of people here and of many others as recounted in various studies, sending a WAS an e-mail pouring out how much you love and miss him is not a good idea. It will generally be a further turn off and a way of tightening the noose.

I have sent several desperate e-mails and texts in the early days of my sitch and while it made me feel better to get it off my chest, I wish that I hadn't done it. Looking back I feel like beating myself for conveying such a level of neediness and desperation. Very unattractive. And never again!

Draw your boundaries. Let him go. Focus on getting your groove back. Let him learn how to respect you again. He knows the way back and if he is serious he will let you know and will do the work.

You don't have to give up hope.Just realize that your H is not at a point now where pursuit will work and where pouring out your feelings will work. Right now you are a predictable open book to him. Work on regaining your self esteem and let him wonder who this new woman is and how he may be able to persaude her to take him back.

[NotCrackingUp]

Thanks Kara,

I wouldn't send anything. Before he left home, while he was in the spare room, I tried to talk to him, but never got any satisfaction. He either blew up and blamed me for his having had an affair, for his dissatisfaction with his life, for climate change and world famine OR rgot in his car and drove off fast, to return very late or the following morning.I tried writing to him, not pleading, but acknowledging past errors, trying to point out how burnt out he was (70hour weeks before the bomb and for sometime previously), telling him that I loved him. The letters were read and kept, but never answered. Then I found Divorce Remedy and realised my error.

I'm not contacting him now, he's the one who contacts me.
I'm just devastated that he could turn against me like this and wonder if it's permanent. I've been looking through what's been posted about the MLC, a lot of it sounds so familiar, but then again I wonder if all that's not just a cop-out. He does seem to be trying to get rid of some old skin, and distance from his kids doesn't seem to affect him the way it would me. New clothes, new friends, breaking away from family.I don't recognise him.

Anyone who cares to : tell us what ye think about the MLC. Fact or fiction?
NotCrackingUp

[NotCrackingUp]

Kara, I've just been reading your first postings. How similar! My H is 4 years my junior, but started by going through similar changes.He stated by worrying about wrinkles and hair loss (I always told him he looked great, but I suppose he needed to hear it from someone else...). He started being away a lot, unavailable etc. When he finally told me abou the affair, it and everything were my fault. I was too calm, too reserved, not sexual enough, too needy, I smothered him, I was never at home, I never went anywhere, I was incapable, useless. Lots of contradictory stuff, but also some grains of truth. i tried to take my part of blame, but he wanted me to bear it all.

The advice you got from 25MLC and others would have been lifesaving for me when I first had to deal with things, but sadly, I followed instinct and he left.I can stilluse some of that advice, though. i try my level best to look better than ever and stay quiet and friendly in his presence, don't contact him, etc.
I haven't read all 76 pages of your postings yet, so I don't know how things have turned out. But I mean to soon.
Thanks.
NCU

[NotCrackingUp]

Kara, I've read through most of your story from 2009 and the start of 2010. Hope things are positive now.
I also find that prayer keeps me sane and gives me strength. I often ask Jesus to send me a little sign of hope, so I can carry on. I can't break down, my kids would be very upset. And the strength is always there. And I've even experienced an unexpected phonecall from H just after I'd prayed very hard.

My H has moved out. I've felt so responsible for this. But now I realise that his choices were and are his. I can only take responsibility for part of what went wrong, not all. He's the one who turned to another woman when he knew his wife loved him, she was just overloaded with work.

I did not always realise that certain ways of behaving got to him and upset him, but he'd be grumpy or angry but not clear about his feelings. I'm not a mind-reader and he should have talked to me clearly and kindly while there was time. So I'm going to stop putting the blame on myself.

If I were in a position to make a meaningful u-turn on past behaviours, it would be to take lots more care of my appearance, initiate intimacy, be more openly affectionate. These were part of his gripes when he told me of Affair. Straight away, I did start doing all of that, but it must have been too late, as he left our room in May and the house in August. So how can I do that now? I suppose just look as good as can be now all the time - for the kids, for me, and for his benefit when I see him. I've had my hair done and changed my way of dressing, but he only seems to look at me with disdain.

You mentioned your H's mood swinging. I've noticed that too, especially since he's left. He will "forget himself" and look at me and laugh and smile as in the past, then the mask is put on again PDQ. almost as if he goes "oops!". He'll be cold and stony one day, and come here wanting to know if I painted the outdoor woodwork or cut hedges or something. then the next evening he's on the phone telling me of work troubles and sending me kisses. My head spins betimes.

At the start, I did spy a little - nothing I didn't have a right to look at really - detailed phone bills, bank statements, joint email stuff. and what I found buried in there only made me feel worse about myself and about him. Never better. I did tell him what I'd found, couldn't stop myself, and that drove him wild. I sometimes think that being found out to be a cheat and a liar was the part that killed our M for him. He told me of his affair, came clean. But then a month later, I found stuff that showed me it wasn't a thing of the past.So he was shown to be lying and I think couldn't live with that. I'll never know. If he comes back, there are lots of things to discuss, but I don't want to know any more about the OW and his secret bachelor life.

I realise I've always bent over backwards to please him, didn't often claim things for myself and lost touch with my own desires. So became insipid to husband? So became resentful and tense and so less in the mood for love at times? So gained weight? I've lost the weight, but still have the urge to please at all costs. I'm reading "Disease to Please", about the compulsion to please others and how to find a cure. Some things ring a bell.
You mention books by Marianne Williamson and some man : graham something? About how to love and let go, how to real loveetc. I too believe that anger can be healthy but very unproductive. My H is angry all the time, at me, at the kids. He barely contains it at times, yet we do nothing to eserve it. I need some help with showing love and possibly being attractive to a man who's ready to blow a lot of the time. He was more sheepish today, but definitely out of sorts. so book advice.

I don't have a budget that'll stretch to lots of shoes and new clothes, but I have been changing my wardrobe somewhat. When you lose 18kg, you(d better celebrate.
I hope you're in a good place now. Thanks to you and anyone reading. Just writing makes me feel better.
NCU

[kara]

Hi NCU

Wow! You did a lot of reading today.

I am glad that you have realized that your H moving out was his choice as was his having an affair. The better choice is to stay and work on a M, obviously. I felt a sense of something missing, of a gnawing disatisfaction with my M and I didn't discuss it with my H. I thought it was a phase. He obviously felt the same and didn't discuss it with me either. He decided to become involved with someone else. I understand how these things start. I just think that you don't put yourself in a situation to let that attachment to someone else build. We all know what inappropriate feelings are and should know which roads not to head down. An affair will never be a good choice and I think it hurts all involved, including H and OW. Maybe not immediately. Maybe we can't tell. But I believe it does.

OW are tremendously insecure because they know that the WAS who left his M to cheat with them can leave them to cheat with someone else. As long as a WAH and LBS live together or have to interact in respect of children etc, they can never be really sure that old sparks won't reignite. I know that OW put lots of pressure on WAH, so I don't think that life is a bed of roses for any of them. I don't care how much they try to project that vibe. I don't envy any of them their relationships.

I have also deduced that a lot of the constant texting is to keep tabs on each other. Are you really sleeping alone at 2am in the morning? Can I trust you, an affair partner, to be faithful to me? I already know you are a capable of deceit and lies, so let me spend every waking hour texting and e-mailing you. What a lovely life!

As for the looking at you with disdain, my H used to do that a lot. Or rather, he would project this great irritation as if my very presence annoyed him. I can't pretend to understand the workings of his mind but I learned to shrug it off because I know I am attractive and desirable. He can't make me doubt that about myself!

I think a certain amount of anger from WAS is good because it shows emotional involvement. Indifference is worse.

I think having strength and drawing suitable boundaries is very attractive in these circumstances. If you can get a copy of Love must be Tough by Dr. James Dobson, please do. There are many excerpts from it on line, so you can google it as well. I have read so many books I will have to go back to my library to see which ones I was referring to on my thread.

And, I am doing well. Thanks for asking. After spending an enormous amount of money on books, DB coaching and counseling (on-going), I am really concentrating on being healthy in all senses of the word. It has been a long, hard ride but I have made it.

[NotCrackingUp]

Thanks for replying, Kara.

H came this morning to take kids to school, then came back to the house to get some things for his flat. He was tense and I asked him to stop speaking to me with so much anger, that I'd accept some responsibility but not blame, that I was being kind and friendly and that I hated to see him so angry and cold and tense. He denied, then calmed down. I gave him a hand putting an old sofa into a trailer. He told me that he'd just lost the desire to make love to me, feelings of love for me. That he "didn't know" if we could get back together, asked me to "give him time". 4 months ago, he was shouting at me that it was "over", "finished", I was "useless" and "incapable", etc.And that was in front of the kids.
This morning, we were alone, he could have been as categorical as he liked, but his tone is mellowing, he's not so sure. When I say he's "cold and angry", I mean he's got a severe expression on his face, rarely smiles, won't look me in the eye. He shouted for the first month. Now he's just "let's get this over with".

Anyway, I felt a little more hopeful after. He seems not to be relishing his freedom as he thought he would. No laughs, no smiles. Work pressure but no family company. OW? I don't know or want to know. Or raher, I don't want to spy, but I wish HE'd explain where that story's at. Have they split? Does she want him back? Has she already got someone new? All possibilities. I even thought he was on a dating internet site, for a while.

What you say makes sense. But when a man "falls out of love" with his wife, can he ever fall back in love again? What can I do in my situation to foster that? I see him briefly quite often, but don't text or phone. All communication comes from him, unless child-related.I have them most of the time - he works when they're off school - so getting a life isn't so easy. I don't have a lot of child-free time outside of work. A sitting duck, you might say.
Thanks. NCU

[NotCrackingUp]

I've read over your answer again. It gives me strength. I believe my H's affair hurt him more than gave (gives) him pleasure. He was a naturally straight and open person, with a ready smile and an open face. Not only did he live a lie for several months, but then he was again caught out in lies after he'd come clean and started over again with me. She never left the sports club, as she'd said she would when they split ( he can't - it's his job). They continued to text and phone - at least I know he texted her and I saw him put his hand to his hip pocket and slip out to the garden to check his phone, answer a call, etc. lots of times.

Lying didn't come naturally to him, but he had to hide things and fib constantly. I know this put a strain on him, he disappointed himself and failed to measure up to what he'd thought of himself.

this summer, we went on holiday with the kids. They refused to go if I didn't, so I went along and though I slept with one of the kids, I DBd like mad "acting as if", "cheerleading", being as upbeat as possible, avoiding any R talks, trying to dissipate tension and do my own thing, give him space. The first few days wer fine - he started to relax, brought up memories from when the kids were babies (of himself, talked about how he loved watching them when I breastfed, etc.). I thought: great, this might work. Then I saw him head off to answer a text, then make a call (he went off down to the bottom of the campsite to call, away from the tents). After that, he was on edge, forever slipping away to "the toilet" or "for a smoke" which lasted 2 minutes. And lost all relaxation. He'd begun to smile and laugh with me, it all stopped. He was silent and very tense for the rest of the holiday. The first days he'd kissed me "goodnight", then he stopped even looking at me. I felt that the OW was definitely putting pressure on him from afar. I mean, he was getting texts at midnight! My husband will never stand that kind of pressure, he hates being "tabbed". Or maybe he lovesit from her?

I realise that my not contacting him feels terrible, but is more respectful of his person and more "attractive" now. I have difficulty drawing boundaries. I love to have him come and eat with us; it hurts, but the kids are happy and he relaxes too, after a while. I'd like to ask him questions about work, but don't ask anything, on principle. And give little info on my new place of work - except to say my new colleagues were nice and all 'round my age. I used to work with a group of near-retirement teachers, these are all 40somethings. So my boundaries are largely on the level of communication - not asking, not complaining, not telling

Ilove to read and have read anything I can about communication, self-esteem, assertiveness and love. I realise I let him come to view me as a pushover; I never said when he hurt my feelings, never demanded attention ( he came to take me for granted), put him always at the centre of my life, thought always about what he wanted, what he'd like. I didn't want to lose him, but I became insipid and too easy to please. Of us two, I loved the more, in the end. He didn't feel he had to make any effort to please me.I'll have to teach myself how to put a higher value on my own feelings and person. His rejection of me put he finishing touches to a great lack of confidence in my value as a woman. However, I'm coming to realise that I can still turn heads, that I've lots more to offer than the OW. He just stopped seeing it. So how to make him open his eyes?

My posts ramble, but it helps me greatly to set things down "on paper", so to speak. I can sort of "step outside myself" and see things more clearly while I type with one finger...

I'll try to get hold of "Love must be tough". Anything to the point on the MLC, or is that a bit like "alien abductions" or bleeding statues?
NCU

[kara]

Hi NCU

According to Dr. Dobson, things are not always as clear cut as they may seem in the mind of the WAS. They are capable of second and third thoughts but will they act on them? Just try not to get get too attached to any particular outcome. On the face of it, it sounds positive that he sounds unsure but with WAS and MLCers up is down and down is up. I think they shift in the wind until they firmly decide on a definitive course of action. They at times appear confused, at times resolute. Just don't let them confuse YOU. The game is entirely almost mental at this stage.

Love Must be Tough doesn't address MLC, just infidelity in general and suggests a course of action for the WAS.

I am not sure how you go about attracting your H again.I think having a strong, confident attitude is a starting point. Dressing well and smelling good also work.

I just got in and will grab a bite to eat and post more later.

[Dagny-2]

NCU,

This is my second time down this road, and you really are describing my H to a T, especially the stone cold looks and the mood type swings (I figure they are OW's problem now). My H was 38 the first time and he definitely had some type of "crisis" as he looked at where he was in his life and where here wanted to go. I followed the DB principles as best as I could, but he eventually moved out. That is when he realized that I wasn't the source of his unhappiness. At some point I told him I loved him unconditionally and that just pissed him off. When he called, if the kids wanted to talk to him fine, if not, I didn't make them. That bothered him. I was pleasant when I saw him, no more, no less. I made plans to go to Germany over Christmas and only talked to him every other day. That is when he started to go to an IC and things picked me up. He met me at the airport afterwards and asked to start working ont the R. And we were happy for 7 years, so this stuff works. We fell into old patterns of work and other stresses, so here I am again. This time is different for me because there is an OW that he is "in love with". But last time, H said all the same things H said to you and after this mess was over, we had the best M of our lives.

For parenting, we have gone through the calendar until November and planned what weekends we have the kids. It helps me to have a plan, but we don't have a plan during the week yet, we have been talking about that each week. Still working on that.

Keep working on you, that needs to be done all the time, because it is so easy to stop taking care of you!