You always hear me talk about the process and I believe part of that process involves standing while you do your work.
Hey Grit ... at risk of playing devil's advocate (as if that's ever bothered me ) and continuing the hijack ...
If we agree that this is a life long process, and in effect we are never "done" of the work of self improvement/realization/actualization, at what point do you see someone ready to choose to continue to stand, or not?
PEI
Holding onto anger to punish someone else, is like lighting yourself on fire to get smoke in their eyes ~ 25yearsmlc
If we agree that this is a life long process, and in effect we are never "done" of the work of self improvement/realization/actualization, at what point do you see someone ready to choose to continue to stand, or not?
I loved these time paradoxes
At what point does focusing on things in a present-holistic context become sub-optimal? How much should be focus on the future, moving forward, making plans, and setting realistic future goals? How much time should be devote to looking to the past, and if we do look to the past how do we do it without regret?
M-47,W-40,No kids D-filed 5/27/2010 Piecing - 10/21/2010 -=Soon to be banned=-
If we agree that this is a life long process, and in effect we are never "done" of the work of self improvement/realization/actualization, at what point do you see someone ready to choose to continue to stand, or not?
I loved these time paradoxes
At what point does focusing on things in a present-holistic context become sub-optimal? How much should be focus on the future, moving forward, making plans, and setting realistic future goals? How much time should be devote to looking to the past, and if we do look to the past how do we do it without regret?
When it comes to relationships and marriages I believe fully in a solution oriented approach. It's my opinion though that in order to maintain long-term changes one must truly examine oneself, one's actions and one's past in order to be moving forward in a postive, healthy, sustainable way. I believe that it is important to "stand" long enough to be sure that one's decisions are coming from a place of compassion, understanding and truth for the LBS ... decisions made hastily from a place of anger, hurt, resentment or impatience do not do the LBS justice. Looking back and using it to move forward, understanding that we too are human and make mistakes and ultimately forgiving ourselves for those mistakes is what keeps us from doing it with regret.
"I did then what I knew how to do. Now that I know better, I do better." — Maya Angelou
Peace PEI
Holding onto anger to punish someone else, is like lighting yourself on fire to get smoke in their eyes ~ 25yearsmlc
I have been in my sitch for two and a half years now. 1 year of 'supposedly' working on the M where we did about 4 months of MC total - my W did none of what she was told to do by the counselor, while I did. After a year my W said she wanted a D. We lived in the same house for a year. We physically separated in January 2010 - so that's 7 months.
Looking back I wish I had the emotional and mental capacity to draw very strong boundaries and enforce them inside of the FIRST year.
From my current perspective, I would have told her to either get in, or get out. Period. I allowed her to just run around with all the power while I was nothing but a whipping boy. I took the 'high' road, which is actually the low road in my opinion, and I think being patient and waiting for her to make up her mind actually hurt a lot more than it helped.
There comes a point where it is obvious your S is not doing anything to work on the R.
I don't buy into the "well, just think of how long they 'suffered', all those years of pain until they dropped the bomb." The reason they went through years of pain was because they didn't draw any strong and enforceable boundaries. They didn't say, "I refuse to have a M like this. It's time for us to get off our a$$es and fix these problems. You have two weeks to decide if you're in or out."(More likely they would have said it's time for 'you' to get off your a$$ insomuch as a lot of the WAS blame the LBS for the problems)
If they had done that none of us would be here right now. The R would have either gotten better or dissolved years ago. They have their unhealthy and dysfunctional issues too. They don't get absolution just because they were the ones that dropped the bomb. It could have just as easily have been us - I would guess no LBS was happy in their M either as it existed.
Waiting for this reason is nonsense.
Many people won't make a choice on a huge issue like M until they are backed up against a wall.
CD, your W has not had any impact of life changes which will occur if you were to get D. Like you said, she has all her stuff in the house, she comes and goes as she pleases, you've indicated your 'standing for your marriage' to her, and she continues on doing what she's doing.
Waiting for a meteor to fall from the sky, hit her in the head and wake her up? That's what I did.
I knew in that first year my W was doing nothing to repair the M. She never even showed up to the field. I knew intuitively she was blowing smoke up my a$$ (and the MC's). I was too scared to call her on it. I wish I had.
I say put her nose to the grindstone. You may not need to file for a D, but put all the steps in motion and implemented to the point where she is D from you in all sense of the word without the actual legal papers being signed - if you want to postpone the actual D.
Originally Posted By: truegritter
Filing for D is a bell you cannot unring.
I disagree with this. It's like saying an A cannot be unrung. Although you can't go back and change the fact they rang, you certainly can grab the bell and stop the ringing. Stop the affair and stop the D. They aren't freight trains without brakes.
But I do agree with this - you must make the decisions based on yourself and not on having some possible effect or outcome.
I am filing for divorce. I refuse to live in an open marriage. I will continue in that direction. The only thing which will change that is you stopping the A and showing a willingness, desire and actual work to piece our M back together. If the conditions of MY boundary are not met we will ultimately be divorced. Then do it.
Is there actually something wrong with that boundary?
You can still stand for your M while you are walking toward a divorce. You can still stand for your M while walking away from it. They aren't mutually exclusive.
Parents are still standing for a parent/child relationship when they throw their drug using teenager out of the house with no money and no place to live.
Love sometimes must be tender, and sometimes it must be tough. It is both the lamb and the lion.
You can't do anything about another persons decisions so you can draw a boundary to protect yourself from them, while still caring about them and desiring different circumstances than the ones you find yourself in.
Wonks, I see you're MLC lasted 5 years. I imagine from the POV while in it you would resent someone for walking away. But let me ask you this, from your POV now do you resent anyone walking away from you while you were in the throws of it?
MySitch Me-47 STBXW-41 D-5 S-8 ILYBNILWY-01/08 Want a D- 01/09 Physical Sep-01/10 D filed-06/10 Got 50% custody=09/11 Ride that wave!
I don't have time right now to do justice to the argument but do have a point to make quickly:
Whatever the LBS does in terms of deciding to move forward and let go or stick it out trying to reconcile, my main concern - as a future FT :-) and fellow DBer would be the reason behind that move. If the LBS is sticking with it out of fear of losing WS, it's not good motivation, imho. You just don't gain self respect or the respect of the WAS in that mindset. While many say that is not the reason, I've heard it - or read between the lines - too many times that it IS the reason, deep down.
I like what Allen has said before: you have to do it because you WANT the R, not because you NEED the R.
In all the people I've ever talked to or heard from, I've never heard anyone say they were sorry for setting and keeping boundaries. Mostly, I hear that people are sorry they DIDN'T/couldn't set boundaries sooner. The irony is, people are afraid of giving up on their spouse but yet it seems that most of the wayward spouses that come back are the ones where the LBS was willing to let them go. The very act of the LBS showing genuine respect for him/herself was what attracted the WS back home.
EVERY case is different, of course. Everyone has to choose their own course of action. That's why you get all this advice and still ponder over it all. As I've read before though, Letting Go does not mean "giving up". Heck, maybe it was even in this thread that I read it, not sure, lol. Actually, letting go can be it's own methodology of triving to save a M.
We all know divorce papers end a M but they don't necessarily end a R for good. My son has a friend whose parents divorced and 2 weeks later started dating. Went to MC for a year, remarried, and have a MUCH better R now. We've all heard stories like that. After my D from H1, he wanted to reconcile and he was already living with OW. I said no. Of course, it's different now - with 20 years with H2 and 3 kids. However, maybe it's because I've had that experience that I'm less afraid of the big D than some others are and fully believe in GAL of my own. It's also because of that experience that I know boundaries and self-respect work in a lot of cases, more often than not. What those boundaries are can be be very individualized, but it doesn't hurt to start setting and keeping small ones and working up to bigger ones, perhaps.
CD is the perfect case of that. CD may not be prepared to go file D papers at the moment, but it's good to have at least set boundaries that you aren't going to put up with CB and be at W's beck and call... not answering texts/calls right away, etc...
This doesn't have to be an all or nothing proposition if someone's not ready for it. You can work your way up and decide little by little! The main thing is, don't let stupid fear make your decisions. Feel the fear and do what you know is right in spite of it.
I'm actually looking into going back to school for a M.S. in Mental Health Counseling. I have to wait for my sitch to get to a point where I know my financial standing but I've already collected up the information I need.
Should be a fun ride for me.
As far as your comment on the D not terminating an R - I've heard a number of stories of people getting back together even after a D. Sometimes the space apart and the growth each person goes through is exactly what they need in order to actually build a good R.
It's like I always say - nobody knows what's going to be until they get there.
MySitch Me-47 STBXW-41 D-5 S-8 ILYBNILWY-01/08 Want a D- 01/09 Physical Sep-01/10 D filed-06/10 Got 50% custody=09/11 Ride that wave!
As far as your comment on the D not terminating an R - I've heard a number of stories of people getting back together even after a D. Sometimes the space apart and the growth each person goes through is exactly what they need in order to actually build a good R.
I think the correct figure is that about 20% of people who divorce, eventually re-marry each other.
) and continuing the hijack ...