I was on fire at work today - WOOT! Unfortunately, it was mostly because I was super pissy about Mr. A and trying to GAL by kicking butt at my job. But that's a lot better than being mad at Mr. A and doing a bad job at work!
Tonight is dedicated to facing and sorting through my feelings about Mr. A. I've been avoiding them for the past month. Now my expectations of Mr. A clearly are rising, so this game we're playing is getting uncomfortable and scary. This has got to stop!
Mr. A left the house before 6 a.m. yesterday morning to get to his new job on time. I haven't heard a word from him since. Our evening beforehand was unromantic in every way, even though he initiated it. So I'm having a pity party now!
Two months ago, I would have been ecstatic to have one mediocre evening with Mr. A. But guess what - he divorced me in the interim! So driving home this evening I was thinking I should just cut his ass off. We have so much water under the bridge. I'm triggered so easily by his action or lack thereof. I have no guarantees with him and I'm in turmoil over this whole thing.
But I really don't want to cut him off, and so I'm going back to my roots - back to DR. Now that Mr. A is opening up to me the tiniest bit, I have nothing to lose by trying to DB with him. So I'll go that route in earnest before I totally turn my back on him. As Newmama noted, I've never had the chance to do that before.
FYI, I am skipping Step 1 - Start With A Beginner's Mind. Been there, done that. I got a Beginner's Mind when Mr. A walked out on our life and I've had one ever since, like it or not! One can't help but have a Beginner's Mind when they're dealing with a WAS for 16 months.
Next post will be about Chapter 2.
Sincerely, Mrs. A
P.S. Fair warning - I'll probably add 3 pages to my own post tonight!
P.P.S. Can't help it - I still like the ideas in DR, even though my divorce was NOT busted!!!!!
I'm the only one posting on my thread, which means it'll get boring real quick. Butttttttttttttt... I've totally given up my paper journal since Mr. A found it and I need to get this stuff in type, so posting it shall be!
(But if anyone wants to write back, that would be AWESOME! )
DR Chapter 2 - Know What You Want
Excerpting:
Goal-Setting Rule #3 - Think Small "If you are having trouble with your [relationship], I know you're in a lot of pain... You can't fathom why your [person of interest] just doesn't get with the program and start loving you completely, immediately. Life, you tell yourself, would be so much easier if s/he did.
"It's completely understandable if you are thinking this way. However, this sort of impatience will work against you. For one thing, it will prevent you from recognizing the small signs of improvement along the way. Change in relationships is usually a gradual process... It's really important to identify these babv steps in advance of moving forward so you'll know if you're headed in the right direction."
This excerpt comes after the part where MDW reminds people that it's important to set concrete, actionable goals (rather than vague goals). Here are my vague goals, followed by my more concrete goals.
1) Mr. A will give me some reassurance that his intentions are honorable, i.e., that he hopes we can reconnect and start a new relationship together, wherever it may lead.
2) Mr. A will put some work into winning me over.
3) We together will start to face the issues that tore us down and begin to relate to each other in more effective ways.
4) The new standard of living I have come to enjoy since Mr. A left will not suddenly plummet.
1a) Mr. A will tell me when he plans next to contact me, and then he will follow through. Both of those, every time. 1b) I will contact Mr. A when I feel like it. He will answer. I will not abuse the privilege of calling/texting him by doing it many times a day and expecting him to respond. That will be enough for both of us.
**Note: For the past couple of weeks, we've been meeting these specific goals sporadically. I would like to meet them consistently. Example 1: I texted Mr. A last Friday night and he replied. Example 2: Mr. A said he would call me Wednesday and he did. FAILED example 1: I texted Mr. A last Saturday and he left me hanging until Monday night. FAILED example 2: Mr. A departed yesterday morning without tell me when I would hear from him next. THAT HAS BEEN BUGGING THE HELL OUT OF ME!!!!
Ok, time to post this and walk around. Pet the dogs. Etc.
I'm back - that didn't take long! Note that this may become R-Rated (but not X-Rated).
Vague Goal #2: Mr. A will put some work into winning me over.
HA! From what I've posted here, I'll bet it sure doesn't seem like THAT'S happening!
Specific goals:
2a) For every night I spend watching TV with Mr. A (an old habit) and then having (or not having) sex with him, we will spend one night actually doing an activity. Half of the activities can be totally at the house (like playing a board game or just talking), but I'd like to actually GO OUT a total of one in three times that we see each other. Of course, this is assuming that we'll see each other again. You never know.
Notes on 2a) I still believe that one of the causes of our downfall was that we totally stopped going out. A person can't expect his or her life to be fulfilled if there's only one other person in it! I've really learned/experienced that over the past 16 months, and I'm sticking to it. I will NOT be in another relationship where we ALMOST NEVER socialize. Not with anybody, even Mr. A.
2b) Mr. A will take at least a superficial interest in my life (even the parts that bug him or don't pertain to him) by doing such things as asking me about my day or remembering something that I told him about one of my coworkers.
Notes on 2b: Before Mr. A left, I had a habit of coming home from work every night and saying, "You tell me about your day and I'll tell you about mine!" Now I can see how that would get annoying, but it really meant a lot to me!!! I loved going through that routine and it helped me a lot to transition from work-mode and warm up to Mr. A.
One of the most hurtful things he ever said to me was in reply to that statement one night. He said, "Frankly, I cannot stand to hear about your day. Please don't tell it to me." Then he walked away.
I'm saying it as I remember it, which is paraphrasing, but it was like a knife in the heart to me. I couldn't believe that he actually said that and I was SO DEEPLY HURT!!! It was awful and I never want to hear that kind of thing come out of his mouth again.
So what would I do differently if Mr. A and I had another shot? I probably wouldn't be so predictable. What would I do the same? I would still want Mr. A to know about my life - and I would want to know about his - when we weren't together.
Our "progress" over the past month: Mr. A has been telling me quite a bit about his new job, so at least he's throwing me a bone about his day. Sometimes he's interested in my response or my contribution, but sometimes he just wants to talk without being interrupted. (In other words, I'm just a warm body with extra good listening skills. )
Further analysis (introspection): I shouldn't talk to Mr. A (or, for that matter, any other potential suitor or any other person PERIOD) with the idea that they are JUST WAITING TO STOP TALKING SO THAT I CAN GIVE MY BRILLIANT REPLY! Nobody does that. I should reply to people to engage with them, not to evoke a certain response. UGH! to my own neediness in that respect.
But on the other hand, I think it's reasonable to expect even your casual dating partner to have a base-line of knowledge about your life, what you do, other important people, things that are taking your attention on a minute-by-minute basis, etc. Right?
Yes, I *will* try to DB. It'll be hard because I sometimes get VERY mad at Mr. A. He really tests the F* out of my patience sometimes.
Like just now. I took a short break from the board and was trying to cook something. Meanwhile, I was having an internal dialogue. It went like this:
"Mr. A has been jerking me around for 16 months. Forget it! I don't NEED that! Who on earth does he think he is that he can treat me this way? My relationship with him is self-demeaning and self-defeating."
So yep, I have these little chats with myself a lot. But then I see someone who's actually treating someone that way and I don't want to do that! I want to have boundaries, but I don't want to be so "principled" with a person that I forget they're human! That can happen with anyone, BTW.
Let me give an example of the OPPOSITE from this afternoon.
I spent a 25 minutes at lunch sorting recycling and getting mad (internally) at Mr. A. Then I went to my favorite little lunch spot to get a sandwich. Usually it takes 5 minutes.
I didn't have much of a chance there to think about Mr. A BECAUSE----there was a man there who was on drugs or something and he was taking up the shopkeeper's time. There was also another woman there.
Now I should interject here that this is a true Polish deli and there are a lot of people from Poland who come here to get their groceries.
The man in question was not Polish and had no clue about Polish food. He was looking at the frozen perogis and asking, can I microwave these? Which one is the one with meat? What exactly do you mean by potato, cheese, and potato & cheese? Etc., etc.
Then I had a good lesson in boundaries followed by a not-so-good lesson in boundaries.
Good lesson: The Polish lady said, "Ahem, sir, no disrespect intended, but I am on my lunch hour and I've been waiting nearly 30 minutes. If you want to take your time, please let those of us in a hurry finish our shopping first." NICE!!!
But then the man replied back: "Pardon me, madam, but I want to get on with my business just as much as you do. I was here first. I will finish my shopping and then you can have your turn."
It was awkward, yes, but I thought, Good for the lady - she said something, and politely at that! (BTW, this is such an "Ann Arbor" thing to happen - BA, if you're reading this, you'll understand!!)
Then the lady started apologizing to MOI! Try to imagine this. She said, I'm not usually so rude, but I've been waiting here forever! I said, You weren't rude at all - forget it! She said, I just need to order my deli meats!
Meanwhile, the man was still taking the attention of the shopkeeper. They finally finished.
Then the man said loudly, "These bags are too heavy. I can't possibly carry them uphill to where I live! I'll pay someone $3 to give me a ride home."
Well the Polish lady ended up giving him a ride home. BUT - that [censored] - who was SOOOO lucky to get a ride - said at the end to the shopkeeper, "Goodbye, you Wicked Witch of the West. Love you!"
I couldn't believe it. What a total prick! He frustrated this other woman to the point that she lashed out at him and then felt guilty enough to offer to drive him home - and then he insulted the shopkeeper!
Needless to say, it got me to stop thinking about Mr. A for a minute. !!!!
Crazy!
Well, I guess I just needed to unload that story because it doesn't really relate (at least not in a linear way) to me and Mr. A. But it *was* quite amazing!!!
I think the perogis sound like a good plan! Actually a Polish deli sounds good!
DB for you now. Not for him. It seems to me that at this point, Mr. A would have to approach you as a new "suitor", he would need to start over, and give you really good reasons to give him another chance.
Hi, Mrs. A! I am treading water with the beginning of the school year stuff so I am not on here as much right now.
I am trying to organize your goals from your posts so I cut and pasted a bit
Quote:
1) Mr. A will give me some reassurance that his intentions are honorable, i.e., that he hopes we can reconnect and start a new relationship together, wherever it may lead. Specific goals:
1a) Mr. A will tell me when he plans next to contact me, and then he will follow through. Both of those, every time.
I don't see how he plans to contact you is a sign that he hopes you will reconnect. Maybe your goal is to get Mr. A to want to set up plans to meet with you or see you? You can find fancier words than what I said, but please do not think that just telling someone you will call them , and then calling them, implies you want to reconnect and start a new relationship together. It does mean you want to see them. PERIOD. Another thought is that maybe he doesn't do this because he see that you will agree to see him no matter what. And that you will accept what he is doing currently.
1b) I will contact Mr. A when I feel like it. He will answer. I will not abuse the privilege of calling/texting him by doing it many times a day and expecting him to respond. That will be enough for both of us.
I don't see how 1b pertains to your goal of what you want Mr. A to do. It seems like you want Mr. A to pursue you, so why would you be letting yourself pursue him whenever you wanted? It muddies the waters....you would be able to monitor Mr. A's actions of pursuit a little better if you let him do 80% contacting or something like that. Just my opinion but I think I am making some sense here!
Quote:
**Note: For the past couple of weeks, we've been meeting these specific goals sporadically. I would like to meet them consistently.
Reflect on possible reasons as to why you have made sporadic progress.
[quote]Vague Goal #2: Mr. A will put some work into winning me over.
2a) For every night I spend watching TV with Mr. A (an old habit) and then having (or not having) sex with him, we will spend one night actually doing an activity. Half of the activities can be totally at the house (like playing a board game or just talking), but I'd like to actually GO OUT a total of one in three times that we see each other. Of course, this is assuming that we'll see each other again. You never know.
Does he know that you want to do an activity together? If you are content watching TV and having sex, why would he be motivated to do something different? Just sayin'
2b)Mr. A will take at least a superficial interest in my life (even the parts that bug him or don't pertain to him) by doing such things as asking me about my day or remembering something that I told him about one of my coworkers.
Again, if he is able to hang out with you and have sex with you without needing to make the effort to remember details about your life, then why would he? [quote]
I am not commenting on 3 and 4 because those seem like future goals (good ones) but do not pertain to the present sitch.
Our "progress" over the past month: Mr. A has been telling me quite a bit about his new job, so at least he's throwing me a bone about his day. Sometimes he's interested in my response or my contribution, but sometimes he just wants to talk without being interrupted. (In other words, I'm just a warm body with extra good listening skills. )
This isn't progress according the goals you set and the actions you want to see to indicate that the goals are being met...he isn't reassuring you that his intentions are honorable, he isn't doing an activity other than sex and TV, he isn't asking you about your day or remembering things you told him... HE is only thinking about himself right now. He might not be aware of it.
Further analysis (introspection): I shouldn't talk to Mr. A (or, for that matter, any other potential suitor or any other person PERIOD) with the idea that they are JUST WAITING TO STOP TALKING SO THAT I CAN GIVE MY BRILLIANT REPLY! Nobody does that. I should reply to people to engage with them, not to evoke a certain response. UGH! to my own neediness in that respect.
Good point...I have this bad habit too of sometimes simply retelling my day or thoughts without making it a dialogue. But sometimes it is talking just to be able to vent or to share news with someone. It is a good idea to build room for "talking points" or allow the other person to ask questions....maybe there is no room for asking a question because we cover it all. I read somewhere that for men, it is best to start talking with the END POINT and then pause to let it sink in. It also allows room for them to ask questions if we don't tell the WHOLE story from a to z! EX: "Had a crazy day at work because I had to move into a new classroom!"
(other: why did you have to move? How long did it take you? Did you get help? etc.)
But on the other hand, I think it's reasonable to expect even your casual dating partner to have a base-line of knowledge about your life, what you do, other important people, things that are taking your attention on a minute-by-minute basis, etc. Right?
Absolutely! If they don't know about your life or ask about it, then how is it a relationship of any type? It is just one sided.
Again, I think it is a good idea to build some intrigue, let him pursue you a bit! He is getting everything he wants without needing to work for it. What do we seem to appreciate more- earning a paycheck or just getting money deposited into our account each month? We would just take that money for granted and EXPECT it will arrive. When you work, you earned it and know it won't be there if you got fired.....
me,34 exH,34 S,16 months S:3/31/09-left for OW started DBing 10/09 d final: sometime 10/10 current: http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2022856&page=1 met in 2004
NM, thank you SO much for taking all that time and putting so much thought into replying to my posts!!!!! I've been keeping up on your thread and know how unbelievably busy you are right now, so it means all the more. Thank you!
I hope you are having a TERRIFIC time at your Meetup and don't read this for awhile! And I think it's great what Zoobrew texted you - since you turned me on to Meetup, I understand exactly how much effort it takes for him to know what you're doing tonight and I think it was really nice of him to do his homework like that. 1 (at least) point for Zoobrew in the Effort category!
Back to my posting, you bring up an excellent point that my goals are kind of muddled. It's true. I want to - and WILL - keep refining them.
So then, back to Goal 1: I want some reassurance that Mr. A's intentions are honorable.
What does that really mean? I will feel SO USED if it turns out that Mr. A has been hooking up with me to feed his ego while he's been trolling for a new GF. Let's not forget that we went to divorce court and he divorced me. !!!!!!!!! NO!!!!!!!!!! I definitely don't want that to happen. It is my GOAL for that NOT to happen!!! So I guess that's my definition of honorable...
Moving on from that awful idea, Freckle in Piecing gives a bit of really good advice: Don't ask a question if you're not prepared for the answer.
Well, I guess - with regard to Goal 1 - I won't be asking Mr. A if he wants to remarry me. Or if he thinks he made the biggest mistake of his life by leaving. I don't want to hear what he has to say about those questions right now!
In the meantime, I just want to know whether or not he's still playing the field. If so, I don't want to be intimate with him. The thought of it makes me sick.
So right now I'm working on the assumption that he isn't seeing anyone else, but I have no proof. I only have "signs".
Basically, the signs are that he's spending time with me, initiating contact, and showing *SOME* interest in my life (not goo-goo-gaa-gaa interest, but a lot more than he was at the end).
So the question is whether to push the exclusivity issue or to let him bring it up. There are pros and cons to both:
Pros to pushing it: We're divorced now, and I find out one way or another what he's thinking.
Cons: He may not know exactly what he's thinking. AND - it may just be another instance of me asking him a lose-lose question. BTW, that's another thing I've learned: Don't put people you care about in situations where whatever they say is wrong.
I do it myself (but am trying not to!) and I notice other people do it too. Here is a recent example that has nothing to do with Mr. A.
I had an important question for my boss on Friday afternoon and he was nowhere to be found. I was kind of irritated. It crossed my mind to send him an email: "What, are you on the golf course? There's work to do around here! :)"
Even though I would have sent it jokingly, there was no right answer for him OR me! He could say, Yes, and I'm your boss so stay out of it! Or he could say, No, I'm working my ass off and you're totally out of line for saying that.
I didn't send the email, so it's a moot point except to show that sometimes Mrs. A is inclined to set people up. And I don't want to do that with Mr. A now; thus, I don't know how to broach the exclusivity issue.
Any ideas how I ask Mr. A whether or not we're exclusive???
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1 (at least) point for Zoobrew in the Effort category!