Hi everyone!! Took some time off to try to get my head together. Seems it worked out well. Thank you all for your prayers and support.
Yesterday was actually one of the best days I've had. Although the day started poorly, it very quickly improved and kept getting better.
The status update by W was what it was. Who knows. Must have meant somethng to her but ......I'm not guessing. If she had some intention toward me, she knows how to contact me.
The text and call were both legitimate D2 issues. The dayhome has an illness so W kept D all day. Took the day off. I informed her I was on the road but would take her Friday am so she could go to work.
It meant I had to see W this morning but I was fine about it.
I had no other contact from her all day.
So, why did I fel so good all day? Well, I was listening to NMMNG in the treuck and recording my personal notes as I went. Noticed MORE stuff again. Felt empowering.
Then, the BIG exchange with a friend of mine who knows the sitch. He asked how I was doing 'today'. Then he asked 'where we were in the process'. I told him some the taxes were progressing and the truck was gonna be next but no progress on the D as I'm letting her carry the ball so that she has to experience all the crap it will take.
He asked why? I said because if I do it then she gets off easy. Just shows up and signs paper without the 'consequence' of what she wants.
Over the next hour or so, we arrived at this: (Ready for some irony?)
I need to take the lead in this but without DOING it all.
I have a right as D2's father to know where she is living. Need an address. Need to know if this is a permanent residence or another temporary 'living space'
Where is OM? Right to know if D2 is still exposed to this.
Next, clarify that we are in agreement on the course we are on toward D.
Lay out what we have accomplished so far and get agrrement in writing that custody and the household financing arrangements are satisfactory. Get agreement that any personal debt accrued since June 1 (other that exceptions TBD on personal expenses e.g I will not pay A expenses)are personal debts outside the D agreement.
Get agreement on the next steps. And I lay them out. Taxes; then truck repair then truck liquidation.
She needs to take her personal possessions by a certain date as well.
SET AND GET AGREEMENT on a timeline for such. State the END GOAL is Sep Agreement by Dec 15 so either of us can submit for D by Jan 2 and move on with our lives in 2011.
Set consequences for missing deadlines (e.g financial penalty?)
Then follow up on a regular basis to insure she is progressing toward the intermediate deadlines.
House and furnishings will be last as we have to mutually decide the right time to sell.
When everything BUT the house is done and agreed (saves L fees), then we take to L/mediator and I drop the house equity bomb.
The points to all this, and I agree, are: -I know the status of the A -I know the living conditions of D2 -I have a moving forward timeline -ACTION -she will be committed to act/commit to same -she will feel the pressure -she will experience the D process -stops her last bit of cake eating Her stuff is still here Only has light stuff with her-easy to run again. She still has this house as fall back position She still has ME as fallback position Is she cake eating in new living arrangement or REAL? -forces her to plan the future/see the future No more day to day 'fun/escape' -forces her to COMMIT to future Living arrangement Budget OM Divorce CD is free, too
So, Wonka, at the same time you suggest it's time to move from defensive to shock and awe, I come to the same conclusion.
It was fairly quick. I focused on D2. Can't say I actually noticed how she looked.
What I did notice is that she appears nervous. So it's not just me.
Then I remembered something I read on another thread.
WE have to re-learn how to interact with each other since the dynamic changed. And I still struggle with this but now I know why.
Gotta work on my Cary Grant impression, I guess.
Another thing, she was so flustered/nervous, that as she drove away she ran into a wood construction barrier that is in front of our driveway. -more damage to the truck -I said "Nice work" and walked away. -She "Thanks"
I knew I didn't handle that well. It pissed me off; more truck damage. Minor but carelessness and 'oh, well, attitude'
I texted 'I didn't mean to be critical about my Nice Work comment. I felt you took it that way. Relax, W. Have a good day.
I texted her later that she left some mascara; a set of keys in D's bag and to me know if she needed them.
I don't like dealing with her face to face yet. The tension/awkwardness is obvious
Although I haven't met him, I like your friend. Smart guy, with lots of sage advice!
And agree with Wonka. You have prayed thru this, correct? Well, I don't think it's a coincidence that these two pieces of advice so neatly coincided over the past 48 hours. "There is," indeed, "wisdom in many counselors," as the Good Book says.
A boundary without enforcement is no boundary at all. You sound (to me, anyway) in a good place to "call the question," so to speak. I know my MLC friends will disagree -- strongly -- with me here, but I just don't see the valor in taking the one, two, even three years (or longer) stances. If that's what YOU choose to do, great, but you sound to me like you're detached, heady and content enough to play your ultimate card in this noble fight for your marriage.
I know that if I leave this to her, she'll milk it and not make a decision in a timely manner. I'll be "on hold" while she slowly gets her sh5t figured out.
I don't have time for that and don't want to wait until she decides what she wants to do. Her previous decisions put us here.
I make the decisions now for me.
I believe I am detached now more than ever. I am really unsure if I would want her back at this point. It would depend on the level of sincerity she brings to the table. And I'd still have to think about it.
But either way, her decision leads me to follow through. The analogy we used was to "walk her to the edge". I don't want to wait for another decision from her on when I can get my life going again.
Walk her to the edge, don't push. Let her see the abyss. Then she'll either jump or turn back.
... It would depend on the level of sincerity she brings to the table.
Oh, ABSOLUTELY. I'll look forward to reading the exchange, and will give you my best guess as I dust off my "Sincere-O-Meter" that I got in the mail several years ago from Battle Creek, MI.
Puppy: People disagree with me too - about how I shouldn't expect too much of H for a LONG time if he's in MLC, etc... Honestly, I don't deal with that perspective very well. No, I don't think things will/should change overnight, but I don't agree in letting WS get away with murder because they're in MLC or whatever! Sorry, but as a woman, no one's going to give me that kind of "freedom" when I'm going through hormonal changes!
I don't see the valor in some long, drawn-out battle either. Now, I may go through that, like it or not, but my stance is "if you can't live by the boundaries...go get a place of your own and let me get on with my life. If one day, you change your mind and I am in a place to reconcile with you at THAT point, we'll see."
Have to say, so far it's worked for me. H may not be totally recommitted to M yet, but he is living by the boundaries to stay in the home, being pleasant for the most part, AND his mental attitude has improved.
Yep, one way or another, if enforced, boundaries do work. Sunny, for you, they are working because you are truly in a place to enforce them REGARDLESS of which way they push your H. Many are not ready and attempt to set boundaries anyway ... setting themselves back when they are then unable to enforce them.
My two cents ... Peace PEI
Holding onto anger to punish someone else, is like lighting yourself on fire to get smoke in their eyes ~ 25yearsmlc
Yep, one way or another, if enforced, boundaries do work. Sunny, for you, they are working because you are truly in a place to enforce them REGARDLESS of which way they push your H. Many are not ready and attempt to set boundaries anyway ... setting themselves back when they are then unable to enforce them.
My two cents ... Peace PEI
EXCELLENT point! If you can't/won't enforce boundaries, it is worse to make them than not to, that's for sure! Same with kids, actually. Empty "threats" are meaningless and you lose respect that way.
Now, despite how I feel now, I want to RE-POST what I wrote to FaithnAK for comparison.
Originally Posted By: Originally Posted By: FaithnAK
Weakness...She threw me for a loop....
Squirrel ran up to my hand and ran away IMO.
What is this?
I can't see her anymore...Not because I don't want to, but because of the feelings it brings.
This happened way too fast!
I see her, I want her, but...
I'm not stupid enough to chase.
Why am I doing this anymore?
Please note, this moment of weakness will pass...I'm fully aware of the path I keep treading...
but when do I accept or STOP the path?
At what point do I endure or Let go(and I mean Let go).
Obviously what I'm doing is triggering this effect.
I love her and don't want to lose her,but...
I don't want to turn into the sad sack that keeps "hanging" on either.
Let her go...Let her go...I GET IT...
...but when do you say enough is enough and just say F it. How long do you endure this, when she's already made her choice.
I'm too old for games and life is too short to wait
Originally Posted By: CD Bear
We're both going to pass each other repeatedly in the process. Me ahead, them you ahead. You see something working; then maybe my turn.
I'm going to try to adress your "intense"post all at once.I thought if you addressed you lines one at a time you might see it differently.
Read through the above as separate sentences.
This is what I see from "outside the forest"
How many lines are "incomplete detachment" How many are 'fear' you aren't done YOUR work yet? How many are OLD feelings? How many are impatience and frustration? How many are based in anger/resentment? How many are understanding where you are in this process? How many would you NOT have noticed two weeks ago? Progress?
You need more space to get your thoughts together. You need to understand those feelings. They are old throwbacks. You need enough space and self-understanding to really see if those are REAL or MEMOREX feelings. Are they automatic or authentic?
Regarding you central theme of "when do I quit?"
What you need to ask yourself is what others continually ask of me:
What kind of man are you if you abandon all value in your vows to youself and your wife?
How different will you be if you cut and run because you are tired of "the battle"? Isn't that what she did?
Your questions about "when do I bail" are coming from frustration; anger; betrayal and impatience. Where is your love? Where is your empathy?
These are HARD questions. If you "quit" on your marriage and her, doesn't that confirm to her that you didn't love her and she DID make the right choice to leave?
Nottrying to be a jerk to you but I can see the same attitudes that I see every so oftenin my own posts.
You and I are both better than this.
We have to do what WE have to do for ourselves so that WE don't do the same things again in our next relationships. I am NOT going through this again, EVER. I need the skillsets and coping skills to prevent the deterioration of my next R. I need the self analysis and the boundaries to preserve MYSELF in the next R because "that guy" is important to ME and HER. THAT's who she fell in love with. And I need to CONTINUALLY be aware of my old patterns and NEVER let myself slide into dysfunction or taking her for granted.
The more I know about my values, needs, wants and capacities, the better I will be able to DECIDE who my next partner is.
And ALL of these discoveries and motivations are based in LOVE; not in spite of or in reaction to someone else.
I am learnig how to love properly. Loving myself and "the other". They are coming from a "kind" place. An understanding place. And I need to forgive myself to do that. Which requires that I forgive her and accept that she has made decisions I don't agree with. But she is free to make them.
And so are you. Her decisions weren't based in self-discovery or compassion or empathy or love. Don't follow her lead.
YOU LEAD!! Maybe she'll follow your example. Maybe not.
But you already see that there are opportunities for you as you learn more about you and rediscover the man she fell in love with. You got the opportunity (that she thrust upon you) to learn these things. Are you going to deny her the same opportunity?
Live your life. Do as you are doing. You are on the right path. If she wants to follow, she will. If not, you will find someone to be with without having to abandon her first. The hurt feelings that you use to "eject her" will follow you.
And you don't need that baggage.
That's how I am beginning to see things.
I don't like what my W did either. I hurt from her betrayal, too. I still see glimmers of the girl I married. But I'm not going to abandon my personal values and commitments to make myself feel better by hooking up with someone else or abandoning her to her consequences. That would be vengeful. I'm not that person.
I am above that. I believe you are, too.
You'll know when you are 'done'. And you aren't there. IMO.
