New Beginning

[PEI]

Cat,

While I was not trying to piss you off, honestly, I think you are fooling yourself in some way. Honestly, if you don't think you are, then you don't. I am not the one who looks in your mirror.

I understand you think I still have a ton of work to do here. My musings and ponderings are part of my work. I continue to dig but am comfortable with what I am finding. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree and let time sort it out.

Honestly PEI, I do not trust women in general.

I get that.

My H had several OW, who all tried to be or were my friends. Who acted like my friends, came to my home, hung out with me, gave my son gifts. I am not as much apprehensive as less willing to blindly trust until a time when it is earned.

Fair. No blind trust based on personal life experience. Seems we agree on this, just that the experiences that got us here (and I haven't detailed all of mine, just eluded to how it started) are different.

as long as we have something in common, I am open to friendship with people, regardless of their gender.

Me too.

I tend not to be interested in most things that women my age are.

Me neither.

Seems to me though, that you are projecting a bit …

Projecting, no. Sharing my own experience, Yes. PEI, you opened this door, these are your ponderings, not mine. I have already walked down that road. And more often than not, it wasn't too pretty.

I did not claim to not open the door. And yes, they are MY ponderings. And while I respect your opinion and your experience, I happen to disagree.

And within a COMMITTED relationship, for your spouse to be "validated" by a group of men ?

So it’s been decided then, we are talking about validation? Oh, I thought we were talking about joking around and having some fun … this is the real debate.

The post that spurned this "debate" was your musings about validation.

Yes, musings about validation and communication/relating style and friendship etc. and the conclusions I was drawing for me personally.

And I have to accept the judgement that does come my way because of that.

No Cat, actually you don’t. You may have to accept that it will happen, but you don’t have to accept that it is ok or justified.

I never said it was right or justified. Simply reality. Reality, I accept.

Your choice. I choose differently.

I stated I liked the general style of guy relating (banter/fun/etc) and that was taken as what I base my preference for male friends on???

You stated you liked the style, and PEI, I have seen how you express that, almost always with sexual overtones. That is what it is based on. Exactly what you said.

I do like the style. I won't apologize for it. And truth be told, I don't usually send the conversation off track (in fact when I go back and read the wax example it stayed clean until Grit and Mach side-lined it), but so what if it side-lines, I can have some fun too.

Over and over you complain about gender bias. It may not be fair, it may not be right, but you know what, it is reality. It exists.

I understand it exists, but I choose to not be bound by it. Acceptance will perpetuate and I choose not to.

I never said it is ok for the guys to act like many of them do, any more than I think it is ok for a woman to perpetuate it to fit into their world.

Maybe, but it never comes up as NOT ok either. Seems to me like it's the behaviour itself that you don't approve of, and that is your perogative. I simply disagree.

Are you using your fighting of that to justify your behaviors?

No.

Be honest, how does that banter, that one up manship really make you feel? Powerful, in control? Equal to men?

Honestly Cat, it makes me feel like I'm having some fun with some friends. It's give and take, comradarie .... whatever. It's not a power play. I'm already an equal, no need to "prove" it.

PEI, I could care less if you like me or not. While I have been lucky enough to form some good friendships from these boards, I am not here to make friends.

Trust me, I get it. And quite frankly, I agree. I used to hate the thought of someone not liking me, used to eat me up inside ... that whole approval thing. Now? Not so much. To each his own. Like me, not like me ... your choice. What does still bother me a bit is when I feel misunderstood. I don't like feeling like someone has made their choice based on partial information or assumptions. But I'm learning to deal with that too. Not my issue ... outside of my control, so I let it go.

I am here because I have been down both roads and have been dealing with this crap on and off for, Holy Crap an anniversary has passed, 13 years. I have survived the first go round with H's crisis, after I did LRT, out of anger. I have pieced and have survived a second go round with his crisis. This time, I have taken a different path in every way possible. Including, but not limited to, what is preached on this board.

And this is precisely why I respect your opinion and experience. Doesn't mean that I agree with everything you conclude, or that everything applies.

This isn't a popularity contest for me.

Are you saying it is for me? Because I can assure you that isn't it. And frankly, if you think it is, you don't know me at all, on any level.

I have experienced things, in and out of my M, that have brought people who post here to tears, anger, and in one instance, complete silence and shock. It is from that experience that I can look at a what people write and more often than not, say exactly what they need to hear. Even if they don't want to. While I often wish I haven't had all of the crazy people in my life that have been there and I have asked God why He has chosen to put me through all of the stuff that I have been through, witnessed, and lived, I also know that there was and is a reason for it. So someone else doesn't have to walk the path that I have walked with quite as much difficulty as I have had. It is the only way I know how to post. How to reach people.

I have no problem with the way you post. I don't mind being challenged. If I did, I probably wouldn't post anymore.

We all have baggage, some of it heavier than others. I am not in any way trying to diminish your life experiences or the crap you've had to deal with. One of the lessons I learned while reading "This is not the story you think it is" was that pain is not relative. It just is. It is what it is. Everyone's pain in personal.

Your reasons for posting are no different than mine. I too hope someone learns from something I have experienced or learned, and that their journey in some way is made easier for that lesson. I'm here to continue to grow and learn, to push myself and be pushed by others ... and I'm here to pay it forward. Those who know me know this to be true. Popularity contest? F*ck that, I've been to highschool and I'm not interested in going back.

If the example of a conversation I was in, stung for you...

No sting here ...