New Beginning

[PEI]

Hi all!

Frig, ya take an afternoon off to take the kids to the park and my thread goes crazy ... well, here goes nothin' …

That you can be absolutely judgmental about other women, and what you assume they are going to be like, without actually taking that chance....

I think I addressed this …

I now have and maintain very close friendships with many women

Did I call you a Cougar ?

Nope....I think you need to read again, maybe after the 48 hour rule ?

Ok ….

Yet completely 100% differently NON-judgmental about the attention of men.

For me, it would seem to be the exact ingredient needed to fuel a "cougar" mentality.

Are you comfy with this ?

Ok, reread it … and yep, I’m calling BS on your “Nope”. You can word-smith it or play semantics but I believe your intent was to push that button, and you wanted me to feel like you were calling me a cougar, or a potential cougar to prompt a response.

You almost had me. You really did.

Cat, I have to admit, that with the morning I was having, hell, the week I was having that this little nugget pissed me off from the get-go. Maybe Eric’s right and I took it the wrong way, but from where I sat this morning, this looked like you were implying I was trying to “fool” someone … “almost HAD me”... Anyway … I’m gonna let that go and move on.

Am I still searching outside myself for validation .... to validate my worthiness, my sexiness, my attractiveness, my appeal?

Are you sure of this statement? Really sure that you are not looking for attention, maybe not validation exactly any more, but attention from men?

Actually I am sure of that statement, it’s a fair question, but yes, I’m confident in my answer.

So ... what's the deal then? I like men. You guys are alright. I like the banter. I enjoy the fun. And more than ever, I like women too (no Grit ... not like that ... I'm not wearing the shirt!) ... as long as they are the kind that don't like drama and can relax and have some fun.

PEI, this was ok, sorta. Right up until your sexual aside to Grit. You made an assumption of the thoughts that your comment would bring, and couldn’t pass up the chance for a response. (Which you got BTW.)

So, let’s say I don’t make the pre-emptive strike (that’s the one-up-man-ship I was talking about by the way – and a long-standing joke between friends) and instead, Grit goes for it, as I assumed he would (or anyone does for that matter) and then I respond with an LOL or something equally mundane … well then it’s ok right? Because they are just “boys being boys” … I call BS here again – more on this in a minute.

My opinions on relationships with women are based on my experience. I grew up in a very small place, went to very small elementary and highschools and unfortunately a bunch of the girls I was exposed to were nasty.

Maybe it is time to let go of that part of your life.

You’d be amazed at just how much I’ve let go of Cat, forgiveness and forgetting are two different things, and guess what … you get burned enough times, you learn to test the stove to see if it’s on, just sayin’.

Am I now absolutely judgemental about women? Not at all. I now have and maintain very close friendships with many women, I just don't like the drama associated with what appears to be, in my opinion and based on my experience, a lot of women. Ask around, I bet I'm not the only one who thinks so.

Because this statement shows that you haven’t. You are still using those experiences, to justify your apprehension of women.

If that's true then I wonder what do you use to justify your apprehension? More to the point, because really I don't care how or why you justify it (nor is it my business), why is ok for you?

I still have a hard time forming friendships with women. Partly because of my desire to stay out of the drama,

You know what I have learned though?

It is much easier to have those “friendships” that you are talking about, when you totally remove the sexuality from it. You have to be able to set up the boundaries in your own mind. For you. And you have to know that it is ok to NOT cross them, even if your intentions may be pure and innocent.

Honestly, I’m glad that you have learned what has worked for YOU. You are comfortable with the way you conduct your friendships and set your boundaries, as you should be. Seems to me though, that you are projecting a bit … what has worked for you, and what suits your preference in relationship dynamics might not be what works for everyone just because we are both women enjoying a mans world with similar background stories.

And within a COMMITTED relationship, for your spouse to be "validated" by a group of men ?

So it’s been decided then, we are talking about validation? Oh, I thought we were talking about joking around and having some fun … this is the real debate. I disagree that all joking around between men and women, even if there is sexual innuendo or “asides” is validation. Some women share that sense of humor. For potentially a multitude of reasons … just personality, growing up with a houseful of brothers, hanging out with guy friends, etc. Again I ask the question …

Funny, I wonder ... if I were a lesbian and chose to mostly hang out with and joke around with men in the same fashion as I do now ... would anyone have a problem with it? I would guess not. Why is that?

By you being here, and saying what you think PEI is thinking, or the way PEI interprets my words.....

Is Validation....from a guy friend....

So if Shel had said the same things nobody would question it because she’s a woman? Again … the gender bias I take issue with.

And I have to accept the judgement that does come my way because of that.

No Cat, actually you don’t. You may have to accept that it will happen, but you don’t have to accept that it is ok or justified.

Does that mean that I talk to them about my Brazillian wax

Ah … here is the bee in your bonnet … do me a favor and go back and reread that part of the thread … it starts near the bottom of on page 29 on my first MLC thread. I actually brought it up as context to relate a funny story between my husband and I. Then the guys ran with it … and ya know what, it was funny as hell by times. Don’t see anyone questioning Mach or Grit’s level of digging re validation or appropriate communication styles based on their joking around. Again … the double standard … and yes, I understand it exists, I just refuse to be bound by it. Does that potentially portray me in a certain light, perhaps … to those who choose to let it and not get past it to get to know the rest of me. Their problem frankly.

So why do I like men? Honestly, how many women do you know that can carry on a conversation about the engine of a car, the actual technicalities of a sport, fishing, hunting, etc? Those are MY interests.

So ... what's the deal then? I like men. You guys are alright. I like the banter. I enjoy the fun. And more than ever, I like women too (no Grit ... not like that ... I'm not wearing the shirt!) ... as long as they are the kind that don't like drama and can relax and have some fun.

I would like to see PEI's reasons for liking men, to be much more like mine...

Actually, they are. I share a lot of interests with the men in my life … action and horror movies, business and entrenpreneurship, a true distaste for “girly” TV (ie I’ve never seen even an episode of Sex and the City … which my girl friends find disturbing). But … I’m not a total tomboy either … I’m no jock and yes I like high heels and dancing. I also like kicking back with a beer and listening to heavy tunes or sitting on bank with a fishing rod (in PEI opening day is April 15th and I never missed an open with my Dad … even at 15 with blue eyeshadow I was there). I stated I liked the general style of guy relating (banter/fun/etc) and that was taken as what I base my preference for male friends on???

First, I think we all need to realize that when we post; we need to understand that sometime tone is difficult to read. Sometime we interpret someone response as a negative or an attack when it really is not.

Hey, just because I’m paranoid doesn’t mean somebody’s not chasing me …. JK! Seriously … good point …

My point is this…things are posted on these boards with the intent to help each of us grow, grow in the areas that sometime we do not see we need to grow in. Sometime it is not until someone challenges a post, thought or a POV that these areas of growth are visble.

I get this. I really do. I guess my point is just that because someone else thinks, based on their own personal story or experience, that there might be work to do or room to grow in a particular area doesn’t make it so. I do think though that we would be remiss to not point out something if we thought it might help someone reach farther or dig deeper.

So it is ok for Mach or Jack to talk in a "man" way with your W? It doesn't bother you at all? Doesn't make you feel just a bit small? Especially if she is welcoming and responsive of it?

I think the point of this or at least how I interpreted today back and forth…is that we all need to look at how we communicate with each other, specifically with the other sex. That is a conclusion that each of us must reach on our own and I think she was just trying to highlight that point.

I’m not saying there isn’t a line. I’m just saying that there are various definitions of that line, and it’s not “one size fits all”. Sure, misunderstanding might occur, and as ADULTS I would expect that we would communicate about those in a forthright manner. That’s just me. And I don’t like different lines for men and women, that’s the gender bias that I don’t buy into. Also, perhaps wouldn't hurt to define the line by what you would or would NOT do or say in a room with your spouse present.

What I believe they were trying to do was point out something that they saw/felt in response to your post

Sure, fair enough. I actually pointed that out myself. I’ve made no secret of my past or the work I’ve done to uncover the reasons/motivations/ramifications of that past. The operative word though is PAST.

Am I crazy or does anyone see my point of view?

Dude … you’re just crazy … JK … was too easy ….

Maybe not all women, just Canadian women?

Nicely played my friend.

I will not speak for you - your a big girl you can do that yourself.

Yes I am, and yes I can.

Peace
PEI