In my opinion, if there are children involved, a third person (OP) should never be in the picture until the kids have completely stabilized in their new life, probably a couple years. I don't just mean the OP shouldn't be in the kids' lives, I mean there should be no OP period. During that horrible time, any emotional energy a parent puts toward an OP is energy not available for their kids. My W won't admit it, but it's not even remotely debatable. Her obsession with OM made her much less available to the kids at exactly the time they needed her most. I mean, she was literally gone for weeks at a time, right after we separated. The kids were scared and confused, but she justified it to herself "They're safe with their Dad. I deserve this."
John, I was really surprised when I finally realized that going dark does not damage a relationship. It puts it on hold, and gives time for anger to subside. Lets the WAS feel the real consequences of their decisions. After months of not speaking, meeting in court, ocassional ugly conflicts, my W came to me with the softest tone and asked me how I was. She asked me if I hate how we are now. Asked me if I was willing to meet to talk. I said yes, and when we met, she was back to the woman I knew before all this started, at least for a while. She was respectful, she showed some amount of remorse, she said she missed me. She said she didn't want a divorce. She wanted to try again with me. Unfortunately, after a couple months of movement toward reconciliation, the reality of the damage done to our R became evident and we've stepped back from each other for now. We'll see.
Puppy - my used the word "cold" when describing my going dark. Also, I explained to my wife that in order to work on myself and be better man, I couldn't be around her right now because it made me fall back into old patterns and behaviors. I think her response was, "I understand you have to do what you have to do. And if that means not being my friend, I understand that". That was a backslide on my part with what I said my reasons for going dark. I should just stuck with "Work on myself, need time alone."
Future - It's a big step to go dark because you fear it will damage the R. Thanks for letting me it's OK to do so.
I know I have to go dark, and I'm willing to. I just don't know if the timing is right now. It's a big question in my mind how I should be when I go into Retrouvaille with her in 8 days. I could argue:
1) Dark - I walk in there detached, I get a good experience of Retro, I basically walk in there the same way she is right now. It will take pressure off of me and her if I go in there without an agenda per say. 2) Light - We have a good friendship still going on and she is more willing to work with me, love me, whatever when we walk into Retro. She feels closer to me when we walk in the door.
Like I said, I'm going dark. Just don't know when. If nothing is improved after Retro I'm definitely doing it then, no question about it. But should I before?
Last edited by john28; 09/02/1008:43 PM.
----"Et tu, Brute?"---- me:28 W:24 S4 T:6 M:4 EA Exposed: 5/21/10 Bomb: 6/20/10 (Father's Day) NC w/ OM: 7/10/10 W moved out 8/21/10 http://bit.ly/aOrZne - My sitch
Puppy - my used the word "cold" when describing my going dark. Also, I explained to my wife that in order to work on myself and be better man, I couldn't be around her right now because it made me fall back into old patterns and behaviors. I think her response was, "I understand you have to do what you have to do. And if that means not being my friend, I understand that". That was a backslide on my part with what I said my reasons for going dark. I should just stuck with "Work on myself, need time alone."
It also conveys WEAKNESS. Like "I can't handle being around you."
My way conveys "I CHOOSE NOT TO be around you, as long as you behave this way, because this is not how friends treat one another."
Big difference. First one says to her "Poor baby can't handle it," and it will tend to actually DISGUST her. Second one says to her "He will not allow me to treat him with crap behavior. God, I hate him right now, but that's also sooo attractive!"
Wait, what the hell am I saying? Do more of the same behavior that didn't work before Retrouvaille just to placate and keep things smoother than going dark for one week?
Yeah, that's what I'm asking in a nutshell.
----"Et tu, Brute?"---- me:28 W:24 S4 T:6 M:4 EA Exposed: 5/21/10 Bomb: 6/20/10 (Father's Day) NC w/ OM: 7/10/10 W moved out 8/21/10 http://bit.ly/aOrZne - My sitch
That's one of the traps with agreeing to be her friend. She's not attracted to you, she doesn't respect you. It's what girls tell boys when they are trying to let them down, "well we can still be friends." It's not what they really mean. She doesn't really want ot be friends, she interested in someone else. Agreeing to be friends is a attraction killer.
Yes, by all means be a man and repsectful in your interaction with the mother of your children. A woman won't be attracted to a man who hangs out with females and only gets talked to with no benefits. A friend to me is more than a acquaintance it's someone you want to spend time with and discuss things with. I couldn't imagine inviting the ex to a dinner party at my home. "oh and by the way bring a date." Nope, I couldn't do it.
M22,H45,W45 S21/18D12 Retain faith that you will prevail in the end, regardless of the difficulties and at the same time confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.
In my opinion, you made it through this week alright, so I don't see a need for much change. More confidence in your stance would be helpful. Puppy's advice on how to ask for some space is good. I think a little distance so that she is looking forward to the opportunity to really talk to you at Retro will be good. You should refuse to engage in any R talks this week. There is plenty of time to do that at Retrouvaille, and they will structure the way you talk so that it is constructive on both sides. If the subject comes up, just ask her to hold that thought until you get to Retrouvaille, and then you will discuss that and more. Much more.
Do not try to be distant at Retrouvaille. when there, follow the directions and be as open and guileless as possible.
I would not tell the stbex why I went dark, all she knows is I don't initiate any contact with her, her phone calls don't always get answered, and I not hanging around kissing her butt. Will this save my marriage? I doubt it. But I feel better and she no longer has any control over me. My marriage is dead and gone but still she is starting to call me we have been gray for 3 months.
M40, W 37 M 11 1/2 y T 13 y D filed 5-18-10 S 5-29-10 OM1 discovered 6-5-10 Counter sued for d 6-16-10 OM2 discovered 8-10-10 OM3, OM4 4 kids 10, 7, & 3 D date 10-14-10 http://tiny.cc/mxzct
