Thanks for clearing this up Puppy. I will remain dark, but cordial and nice.
If she brings up me being dark again, I'll just say that I really need some time to myself to think about all this and I just want to be alone right now.
I do know by now that she will counter that in some way by: a) being in distress and asking for help b) putting pressure on me to get back talking to her again by talking D or L.
----"Et tu, Brute?"---- me:28 W:24 S4 T:6 M:4 EA Exposed: 5/21/10 Bomb: 6/20/10 (Father's Day) NC w/ OM: 7/10/10 W moved out 8/21/10 http://bit.ly/aOrZne - My sitch
I told her one day, in the middle of it all, when she said something about "being friends" afterward.
From my personal archives:
This (maintaining "best-friend"-ship with their betrayed spouse) is part of the normalization script, and very common. I was advised to address it early, and HEAD ON, and I did, and to great effect.
"I need to be clear on something," I told my wife about 3 weeks into our ordeal. "I have absolutely no intention of being your friend, much less your BEST friend, if you choose to end our marriage this way, by having an affair and lying to everyone about it. I will of course be civil, and work with you to co-parent our children, but that is all. If you END this affair, and come back and really work on our marriage for a period of time -- say, one year -- including coming to marriage counseling with me and being honest with me and the counselor about the affair, and then it just doesn't work out between us . . . then that's different. But as long as you cut and run like this, not gonna happen."
When we reconciled, my wife told me that this (losing my friendship during her affair, and the potential of losing it FOREVER) was THE single-biggest reason she decided to end it, and come back to me.
not true. you always remain friends with your ex spouse. for juniors sake.
you might even find you are better friends than lovers.
if you can't get it together, maybe the courts will require some parenting classes or award full custody to the mother till dad can get his anger issues resolved. but you shouldn't let that happen. there is no reason a child needs to grow up in the battle zone between two adults. amicable separations are were its at.
and if for no other reason you remain friends so at least they will let you slide a month or two on support payments when work is slow or the bills start piling up. always remain friends with your ex spouse.
What the above ridiculous conversation says to me is, I am right. When you get dumped or your spouse moves out take a month or two, maybe three To Move On.
Don't talk to them, or about them. Think about yourself and where you are going with your life rather then about them and the confused, argumentative, stabbed in the back history you had with them.
In the least it will help you to regain focus and control over your life, REALIZING that ridiculous statements like the above are not as confusing or meaningful as you make them out to be, and,
realize that ridiculous statements like the above would not have occurred if you were too busy to entertain them.
why are you so unhappy? because you are holding onto an unhappy past instead of looking towards a future of endless possibilities.
and especially for you John28, especially for a lot of men on this site, since you suffer from this,
once you regain focus and control, you will look at the whole picture, rather than focus on details and conversations.
if you try to analyze why one morning she says I love you but at night she hates you then in the morning she still hates you but at nights shes saying I love you. You wasted 48 hours of your life. There is nothing to gather from that other than she is confused and just confused you.
I hear you SMQ. I have struggled with thoughts just like that. I think your philosophy is ideal if somehow you have a totally rational walk away spouse who is divorcing you because they are unhappy being with you, but otherwise is acting responsibly, respects you, and thinks you're a-ok. Unfortunately, that's not always the case. If it was the case, they probably wouldn't have left to begin with!
Even though I was in extreme emotional pain for the first year after my W left, I tried to be a friendly helpful co-parent, for the sake of my kids. Inside I was in extreme conflict, because after what she did, I didn't feel she deserved to have me in her life like that, but I felt my kids did. What did it get me? She ate cake like she lived in a bakery. She took off on the kids for weeks at a time to go be with OM, dropping them at my house on the way to the airport. She told me how wonderful OM's country is, and how she was planning on taking the kids for extended months long trips with her, separating them from each other, and from me. She spent money like crazy. Yes, as long as I was "friendly", she'd work with me regarding support, cars, bills, school, etc, but as soon as I objected to her decisions, she became a venomous raving crazy woman, threatening me, and digging at old wounds she knew would hurt.
You know my story. Eventually at the end of last year I had had it, and I cut her off. Was I friendly? No. Did I talk to her? No. Did my kids see me treat her like that? Yes. Did it confuse them? I'm sure it did. Did I stop taking her crap and stand up for myself? Yes. Did she sue me for custody? Yes. Was it ugly? Yes.
What was the result? She put her tail between her legs and came back to me. Has it held up? No, not yet. We'll see. At least she dropped her lawsuit.
Yes, if you're marriage is over, and if your ex is being rational, and is putting the kids needs above their own, then I think the LBS needs to put aside their pride and anger and try to have a good relationship with their ex, for the kids' sake. If they're in fogged out "I'm doing what I want to be happy, no matter the consequences to anyone else" mode, then no, I don't think the LBS should be their friend, at all. The LBS should kick the WAS out of their life, and do everything they can to protect the kids from their wayward parent's impulsive destructive behavior.
And oh yeah, after we got back on better terms, she never once complained about the way I treated her during those "dark" months. She meekly refers to it as the time "H and I weren't speaking". I was shocked when I could see that deep down she knew she deserved to be treated like that, for her horrible behavior.
UGH this is all so confusing. I'm so torn with whether or not to be her friend right now.
I have made some progress when I'm super loving and nice. That's what she wants in a man - not a distant dark one.
But, on the other hand, I made more progress I believe by going dark.
So my mind is telling me to go dark. But from futureunkown's:
Originally Posted By: futureunkown
es, if you're marriage is over, and if your ex is being rational, and is putting the kids needs above their own, then I think the LBS needs to put aside their pride and anger and try to have a good relationship with their ex, for the kids' sake. If they're in fogged out "I'm doing what I want to be happy, no matter the consequences to anyone else" mode, then no, I don't think the LBS should be their friend, at all. The LBS should kick the WAS out of their life, and do everything they can to protect the kids from their wayward parent's impulsive destructive behavior.
I believe she is looking out for our s4. I don't post discussions we've had on him, but she wants him to be as much in my life as possible. Granted, she wants primary custody, but still, she's talking about a 60/40 split now, and more along the lines of 50/50 a few years later. So she IS trying to work with me on some degree. She hasn't gone out and gotten a L and blasted me to kingdom come.
I'm torn.
You guys know my sitch - Heart says be a good man and friend, mind says go dark.
Ugh - need some help here. I'm not sure what my next plan is. Keep in mind that we are going to Retro in 1 week. Two things regarding that: 1. Don't want to give her a reason NOT to go by damaging the relationship futhert 2. How would my being dark affect the Retro experience?
----"Et tu, Brute?"---- me:28 W:24 S4 T:6 M:4 EA Exposed: 5/21/10 Bomb: 6/20/10 (Father's Day) NC w/ OM: 7/10/10 W moved out 8/21/10 http://bit.ly/aOrZne - My sitch
Be friendly, not friends. Be civil, polite, rational, cooperative for your child's benefit. That's about it. One week wont affect much, until then stay low. Could you really be friends with her now?
John, I was really surprised when I finally realized that going dark does not damage a relationship. It puts it on hold, and gives time for anger to subside. Lets the WAS feel the real consequences of their decisions. After months of not speaking, meeting in court, ocassional ugly conflicts, my W came to me with the softest tone and asked me how I was. She asked me if I hate how we are now. Asked me if I was willing to meet to talk. I said yes, and when we met, she was back to the woman I knew before all this started, at least for a while. She was respectful, she showed some amount of remorse, she said she missed me. She said she didn't want a divorce. She wanted to try again with me. Unfortunately, after a couple months of movement toward reconciliation, the reality of the damage done to our R became evident and we've stepped back from each other for now. We'll see.
I think your philosophy is ideal if somehow you have a totally rational walk away spouse who is divorcing you because they are unhappy being with you, but otherwise is acting responsibly, respects you, and thinks you're a-ok. Unfortunately, that's not always the case. If it was the case, they probably wouldn't have left to begin with! . . .
Yes, if you're marriage is over, and if your ex is being rational, and is putting the kids needs above their own, then I think the LBS needs to put aside their pride and anger and try to have a good relationship with their ex, for the kids' sake. If they're in fogged out "I'm doing what I want to be happy, no matter the consequences to anyone else" mode, then no, I don't think the LBS should be their friend, at all. The LBS should kick the WAS out of their life, and do everything they can to protect the kids from their wayward parent's impulsive destructive behavior.
I would agree with that distinction, Future. Well-stated.
And oh yeah, after we got back on better terms, she never once complained about the way I treated her during those "dark" months. She meekly refers to it as the time "H and I weren't speaking". I was shocked when I could see that deep down she knew she deserved to be treated like that, for her horrible behavior.
Largely the same experience here, FU. My wife only complained that I sounded "robotic", or "cold" sometimes when I was talking to her, but I explained that it was a self-preservation/defense mechanism, and I certainly didn't mean to be cruel or anything, and she understood.
On the contrary, she told me that -- as LIVID AS SHE WAS WITH ME AT THE TIME -- she also RESPECTED me, understood WHY I was doing the things I was doing (confrontation, exposure, firewalling finances, and eventually filing for D) . . . and even THANKED me for fighting for her!!!
