911 Puppy...PLEASE HELP!

[Puppy Dog Tails]

Part of the reason I was blowing up his phone with texts the last couple of days is bc I feel completely out of control. Now that I know he's living with her it feels counterintuitive to not do more about it. I feel like I'm just allowing it to continue. If going dark is what I need to do, I'll do it. I'm so fed up with being a doormat and doing $hit that doesn't work or help.

Ahh, I think I can help you with this feeling, Courts. The below was meant more for the men on here, but I think the overall concept still applies:


On “having a plan,” and “The Schmuck Factor”:


I think you let her know that you are here for her when she is ready to do the work necessary. She clearly isn't ready to do that right now.

It would convey weakness if you were to be supplicating towards her while she was still actively cheating on you, and disrespecting her boundaries. Letting her know that you are willing to suck it up, forgive, love unconditionally and do the hard work of reconciliation -- when she is ready -- does NOT convey weakness, it conveys character and strength.

Many, many people confuse "unconditional love" with "doormat-without-boundaries." It is entirely possible -- and NECESSARY -- to demonstrate unconditional love and forgiveness, within a framework of healthy boundaries.

Do you not love a child unconditionally, while at the same time not allowing them to use obscenity when speaking to you? Do you not love a spouse, while simultaneously not allowing them to berate you in front of another couple?

Those are just two silly examples, but I think this is where you're getting hung up. Us men have a REALLLLL hard time with the whole "schmuck factor" thing, and it really rears its head when there is infidelity involved. We don't like to be made a fool. But if your "standing" for your marriage is PART OF A PLAN -- YOUR plan -- then who's the schmuck here? You take a position of "Yes, I am, at the moment, deciding to stand for my marriage, even though my wife is having an affair and is refusing to admit it and work at the marriage, but I have made this choice to do this FOR A PERIOD OF TIME, and I will hold out as long as I can, all the while trying to lay out and enforce healthy boundaries for me and my children. My wife is an adult, I cannot control her, and I'm praying that she comes to her senses soon, before my love for her fully runs out, but I can hold on for "x" months and I will do so, to the best of my ability. This is MY decision, this is MY stand, and I am doing it with boundaries, legal/financial protections for me and my kids, and for a finite period (uncommunicated to spouse -- just tell her "I won't wait forever") of time."

My wife asked me both during -- and after -- her affair, why I was fighting for her. Why I hadn't kicked her out immediately. I told her:

- because I took a wedding vow, before God, and I took that very seriously. It was not "for better or for better yet," it was "for better or for WORSE";

- because I loved her, and we had a lot of shared history together;

- because I didn't want to demonstrate to our four children that when things get tough, you cut and run. You make a stand and fight for what is important to you, for as long as you can, to the best of your ability;

- because if the situation were reversed, and I had say a gambling or alcohol addiction, I would hope that she would do the same and fight for ME;

- and because I didn't want to go to my death bed with REGRETS, that I should have tried harder. If I was going to err, I was going to err on the side of trying to save my marriage and keep my family intact.

When you lay out (and maybe even write down), what YOUR OWN reasons are, and give yourself an internal deadline (6 months, one year, whatever) . . . then I think, as a man, we can feel like WE are executing a plan, and that we're not being a "schmuck."

Does that make sense??

Puppy

[courts0818]

Okay, that example with the "having a plan" and "The Schmuck Factor" were really helpful. This is by far my biggest struggle. Maybe I need to re-read those examples every single day.

I have struggled with this since 2008. Remember when my crazy a$$ was going to head to Chicago and catch H and OW at the hotel? Well...me going off via text messages giving him countless suggestions and berating him - is really similar. It's my attempt to try and stand up for myself, to gain some control, to let him know that I will not be disrespected like this. The more I think about it - almost every single time I have acted like a fool, it has been a knee jerk emotional reaction and all I was trying to do was not be treated like a doormat. IDk any other way to get through to him.

I can't get over it. Without being in his face and verbalizing how I feel, it seems like I'm just avoiding the elephant in the room and as a result, I'm acting like I'm never going to do anything about it. I think I just had a light bulb moment - that truly has been the hardest thing for me. And he might thinking that I will never do anything bc look how freaking long this has gone on. I've been talking about filing for 2 years and then I always come back with the truth...that it's not what I really want.

Plain and simple - when I ignore or don't address the issue at hand I feel like I'm giving him my "permission" or that I'm not going to take a stand and he can do whatever he wants. That I know he’s having sex with OW, but hey it’s okay. GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR. No matter how much I GAL, focus on other things, etc...this ALWAYS comes back to me. This always eats me up. For example, he's at her house right now and it is EATING ME ALIVE. By not doing anything about it, I feel like I'm acting like its okay. That he can just continue to $hit on me and I'll never stand up for myself. I hate this. What I really want to do is drive to that freakin house and pull him out by his balls. Deep down there is quite a little firecracker inside of me.

I don’t know how to get over this bc its how I truly feel. I can’t change how I feel. And changing how I react to it…I don’t know how to do that. I feel like that’s rolling over and giving up. : (

And in response to the other posts...

Right, I am finally stopping the constant suggestions. I need to let his actions show me what he's truly feeling. I really don't know if he wants to work it out bc I haven't asked him that directly. There's been communication, but I haven't come right out and asked, "Do you want to work on the marriage?" Should I?

PMA, its fine. Trust me, I need tough love.
He doesn't have any stuff left in our house. What he had left, I put in trash bags in our garage and he took that last spring. What's left of "his" is really ours - lawnmower, snowblower, etc..stuff I'm not giving up, bc it's needed here.

[Puppy Dog Tails]

I don’t know how to get over this bc its how I truly feel. I can’t change how I feel. And changing how I react to it…I don’t know how to do that.

I just told you how to do that. You view the "inaction" as part of your overall PLAN.

And you do it thru SELF-DISCIPLINE. Simply put, Courts, you CANNOT continue to be reactive and emotional, and have any hope of saving your marriage (much less your own emotional health). You need to DB with your HEAD, and not your EMOTIONS.

Puppy

[pearlharbr]

Failing to plan is planning to fail.

Courts, I have followed your sitch on and off for th past year. Time and again you lose your resolve at the slightest sign from H that he will come home.

Quite frankly, I do not understand why you would even consider taking him back.

But you don't stand a snowball's chance in hell of getting to a point where you can even consider it if you don't smarten up and follow the excellent advice you receive here.

[courts0818]

I hate this. I am a perfectionist and a bit of a control freak and feeling out of control drives me insane. Like I said, it really eats me up, but I'll do what I need to. I so tired of feeling like everything I do is wrong. Wah Wah...I know, but I'm just being honest about how I feel.

[Keeter]

[quote/]And you do it thru SELF-DISCIPLINE. Simply put, Courts, you CANNOT continue to be reactive and emotional, and have any hope of saving your marriage (much less your own emotional health). You need to DB with your HEAD, and not your EMOTIONS.
[/quote]

COURTS - what Puppy is telling you here is some powerful advice. I haven't been in this group for long. But I can tell you, it WORKS. It hasn't worked for my Marriage and WAW yet, but it has worked for ME at this point.

I understand what your emotions are doing to you right now, they are strong. But you can't let them control you...you need to be mindful of them. I tried a meditation class last Monday, for my first time. Not something I would have ever considered before - but that is what a 180 is all about. I am glad I went, and will be going back. I have learned how to calm myself, to focus...and to be mindful of my thoughts and emotions. It really helps.

Some reading is healthy as well.

Be good to YOU.

[PMA_Baby!]

Exactly. One of the hardest parts of my process was re-training myself to RESPOND RATIONALLY and STOP REACTING EMOTIONALLY. I grew up seeing my Dad react emotionally usually with anger. So I naturally thought that was ok. I eventually learned that it's not very mature, respectable and can sometimes get you into trouble. So now I am a lot more in CONTROL of HOW I ACT and RESPOND. One of the best ways to start teaching yourself is to set timelines when to respond.

Like the 24 or 48 hour window that you hear alot about on this board.

Another big point/realization I had to tackle during my process was figuring out why I NEEDED to be with someone that is able to hurt me as much as my X did. It eventually comes down to low self-esteem and pride of dealing with rejection. That is why DETACHING is so crucial so YOU no longer CARE what the other person thinks of YOU so YOU can FOCUS on what you THINK and FEEL about yourself.

I think you NEED to take this time to FOCUS and WORK on YOU and what YOU NEED/WANT/DESERVE. Unfortunately, sometimes this process leads to you discovering that YOU dont really want your partner and that you were more IN LOVE with who YOU wanted them to be versus who they REALLY ARE.

Stay Strong. PMA

[maple]

Courts,

Just chiming in.... self control and discipline - It is so hard to do sometimes.
Try to bite your tongue and keep those fingers off the phone - no texting. Listen to the great advice you have been getting and do it.

With your H's track record, his actions not words over time will show if he is serious!

So its been 2 years... how much longer can you take it?

[Puppy Dog Tails]

I hate this. I am a perfectionist and a bit of a control freak and feeling out of control drives me insane. Like I said, it really eats me up, but I'll do what I need to. I so tired of feeling like everything I do is wrong. Wah Wah...I know, but I'm just being honest about how I feel.

As long as we're being honest: (and this is for everyone else here on the boards, not just you, Courts)

And I don't have time (nor the inclination, nor am I particularly GOOD at) hand-holding, nose-wiping, advising for the 43rd time on the same items, etc., etc. In fact, I refuse to do it anymore (hence you see a lot more copy-and-paste from my own personal archives now). Between my job and my homelife, and the activities I choose to fill my life with (coaching my son, golfing with my other son, spending time with my wife, daughters and granddaughter) -- my "pebbles in my jar," so to speak -- I choose to spend what time I DO spend on this forum, sharing my advise and experience with those who will apply it.

Whether the lack of applying it is due to fear, stubbornness, lack of self-discpline or something else, I don't particularly care -- it's going to be your problem, not mine. I will invest my time on those few threads where people will do the hard work necessary to try and save their marriages, who will get their emotions in check, face their fears, and lack only the specific KNOWLEDGE -- which is where the rest of us vets can help.

End of lecture. Not even really a "lecture" as much as a courtesy "heads up."

Puppy

[pearlharbr]

^^What he said.