Thats what I am trying to say, do waht works and follow through, you dont follow through you cave. We alll have backslides but you backslide, for a moment and then backslide again.
One thing I have done is recognize when the W is trying to manipulate or control, I try not to be a pr!ck but I put my foot down, when she apologizes, I dont get all melty man, I say thank you for the apology change the subject to the kids or say I am have to get going. I have been getting further along in my progress of not getting sucked in to her "vortex". Where you keep reaching for the outside but you are still in her spin, its like a web, as they used to call women the black widow, you get stuck in their web, you want out of it, but your stuck.
Now when you stay out of their grip long enough you stay out of their web, you are not their for them to see you stuck in their web and they can chew on you or nag you because you arent there.
Sometimes I feel W plays the game better than I. She reaches a bit like I have posted over the weekend, I was cordial and responsive, but as she kinda goes dark, I dont pursue at all. I am trying to be strong and let her know I am not there. When I try to assume, or read her mind I get all maybe she is coming back, then I tell myself this is not going to work this quick.
I noticed in your post some people save their M's in a month, depending on the sitch that could be good or bad. YOu dont want to scare your spouse in to coming back too early. That is why I stress the fact the WAS needs time to really think about what they are doing, if they come back out of fear that will not work. My first separation went like that it was 6 months and i think she came back out of fear, we didnt really fix either of our issues, we went back to trying again, and here I am again. It doesnt happen that quick time is what is needed, stop making yourself think this will be fixed tomorrow.
I'll quickly admit I'm probably the worst at detaching and moving on and keeping expectations low, if at all.[/B] I know you guys get it - I love my W and want to save my M. I know you people understand me and the pain I'm in. That's why I keep coming back for more 2x4's over and over.
At least at this point I can recognize the cycle. I'm still learning. [b]It will take more time and test my resolve. I only ask you all keep with me here and keep the fire burning.
RIGHT HERE! You set yourself up at failing! You do everything you say you're going to do, but then you fall back to THIS. After you do good, you fall back to this statement and F it up! You give yourself an OUT and doom yourself to fall back to failure every time by SAYING this. STOP IT! You are smarter and better than this! Try giving YOURSELF affirmations. Seriously.
I fail to see where John is doing so poorly. He successfully manipulated her into agreeing to go to Retrouvaille, has her chasing him, and got her to admit to being open to reconciliation. How many other people have been that successful lately?
And then there's the fact that she moved out and is living in one room while he is in the house. Looks to me like I see the glass half full while everyone else claims it is spilling all over the counter!
I fail to see where John is doing so poorly. He successfully manipulated her into agreeing to go to Retrouvaille, has her chasing him, and got her to admit to being open to reconciliation. How many other people have been that successful lately?
And then there's the fact that she moved out and is living in one room while he is in the house. Looks to me like I see the glass half full while everyone else claims it is spilling all over the counter!
Really? I mean really?
At what POINT do you accept manipulation? If he's manipulating then whats the purpose of him ever TRYING to better himself? If you do anything other than better your self, you FAIL at DB'ing! Period. Read Coaches thread about what the WAS and LBS has in common.
You are relatively new here, AK. So you haven't had a chance to follow thread after thread over a long period of time. All I can tell you is that people are different and relationships are different. There is not one kind of WAW who responds a certain way to stimulus A. If you get caught up believing that a theory is going to save your marriage, you can end up missing the boat.
Coach saved his marriage, true. And he and Greek get along great. I know that. But that doesn't make his particular method foolproof. It worked for him. And he gives good advice. But you've still got to play the hand yourer dealt with the spouse that you are married to. As far as I can see, John is making tremendous headway with his wife doing things his way. What works for him may not work for you, and vice versa.
I fail to see where John is doing so poorly. He successfully manipulated her into agreeing to go to Retrouvaille, has her chasing him, and got her to admit to being open to reconciliation. How many other people have been that successful lately?
And then there's the fact that she moved out and is living in one room while he is in the house. Looks to me like I see the glass half full while everyone else claims it is spilling all over the counter!
Really? I mean really?
At what POINT do you accept manipulation? If he's manipulating then whats the purpose of him ever TRYING to better himself? If you do anything other than better your self, you FAIL at DB'ing! Period. Read Coaches thread about what the WAS and LBS has in common.
Lotus, do you accept being manipulated? Do you NOT feel manipulation is a form of control or passive-aggressive behavior?
Manipulation is a two-way street. We all manipulate. Ignoring phone calls to get the spouse to want to speak to you more is a form of manipulation. Do you really believe that women manipulate and men are passive recipients of manipulation? I don't. All the advice given here is on how to manipulate the spouse.
Manipulation is a two-way street. We all manipulate. Ignoring phone calls to get the spouse to want to speak to you more is a form of manipulation. Do you really believe that women manipulate and men are passive recipients of manipulation? I don't. All the advice given here is on how to manipulate the spouse.
I don't believe any sex is incapable of manipulation.
I do believe if you are trying to manipulate, you are NOT doing the DB process correctly.
I didn't tell John to ignore a phone call. I'm telling him based on what he is getting from someone who CHEATED on him 3 times and has F'd up his head into thinking that HE IS responsible is BS! Sure he wants to save his marriage, but at what expense? His dignity?
Is it fair to say John is manipulating his Wife ? NO.
Sure he wants to save his marriage, but at what expense? His dignity?
That's just it....it's not up to us to judge why John wants to save his marriage or how much it is worth to him. That is his choice. He asked for help to save the marriage, and that's what I am focusing on. I think he has a good shot at saving this marriage.
Quote:
Is it fair to say John is manipulating his Wife ? NO.
Is John being manipulated by his Wife? Yes
Really? A week ago her answer to going to Retrouvaille was "No F@#king way!" now she has agreed to go and passed the test of the phone call. Did she manipulate him into that? No. He successfully encouraged her to go. And now he has successfully encouraged her to fall apart and not know what she is doing.
He may not manipulate, but he is very good at encouraging her to do what he wants her to do.
And while we are at it, I know it wasn't your post, but black widow spider imagery. A little misogynist, don't you think? Women weave their webs to catch the men? And then what? We kill them?
