i wish i could but then i'd have to figure out a way to make it not sound like i'm dissing his parents. they are the ones controlling him with this 'death' talk. too bad i can't report his parents to child services .. hahaha ... sorry, bad joke.
it sounds bad but in a way, it doesn't matter if i get d-bombed or not. if i don't, i get my m back but the road to recovery will be long and hard. i predict more downs and ups. if i do, then i never have to go back to that negative life again.
i think from the very start, all i wanted to do was make him experience the happiness that i felt in my life. it goes back to me saying "when life is this good, you feel selfish having it all to yourself." there is enough to go around. i welcomed him in my circle of friends and into my life. i wanted him to see that being a negative nelly was not the way to make friends. i'm not saying you have to be fake but be open minded. don't judge right away. don't see differences as a negative. it's what makes a person unique.
it's not about "my life is better than yours" or "i'm winning". it's about creating a happy life and wanting to live. i want to take care of myself so i live life to the fullest. it doesn't mean living longer. it means living well.
it is so not about winning.
i smiled more over the summer than i ever did in my 4 yrs of marriage. in fact, i don't remember being this happy.
month after month of failed pregnancies, dealing with in-laws, dealing with h's job, dealing with h, dealing with h's health, his mood swings, his demands, his criticism of me ..
four months before the bomb dropped, i spoke to a colleague about getting a divorce. i asked him how he knew it was the right thing to do. and he was honest. after i left that conversation, i went back to my office, shut the door, and cried like i never cried before. this was before my h asked for a d. i wish i didn't feel that way because i loved my h. i didn't like the way the m was going. it needed change and i didn't know how to turn things around.
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I promise when you see him you will feel sorry for him. You have things WAY more under control than he does
in a way, i feel sorry for him now. he is bombarded with death every day. how can you live like that? i'd take a gun and shoot myself.
But you guard those emotions carefully, so you won't look "foolish" and won't "lose". Those things you keep to yourself are the things he needs the most.
QFT
This made me LOL quite a bit.
"Those things you keep to yourself are the things he needs the most"
This is most likely what the QFT was directed at.
But.. he does not really "need" that right now. I think it goes back to my statement that "people go with what they know". We.. people.. like security. We like knowing the outcome. It makes us feel "safe" and "warm". But.. that same "security" makes us less likely to grow. It narrows the scope of our view of life.
Lets take this statement and look at it...
"I didn't like the way the M was going... it needed change.. I didn't know how to turn things around."
Now.. Dumped said it.. I just changed it some.
For the sake of the argument.. "He" felt the same way. So both of you knew.. this was not gonna last.
So you can't say "I never saw this coming". Cause you did.
He just reacted first.
The reaction is the same one you would have had given the appropriate amount of time.
What if "he" was posting here now instead of you?
Would we be saying anything different?
Put yourself in those shoes.
Dumped.. You have done everything right "here".
There has not been much "drama". You have not made the situation worse. You have covered your "emotion" well.
To me.. that gets you the gold star.
You listen.. to a point. You understand.
The kicker is.. you still can't "see" that this is just simply your BFF.. trying to change your R. Neither one of you knew what to do. But both of you wanted a change. Someone reacted.. and evoked a change. Most likely because they wanted to "see" who you really are.
For the sake of the argument.. "He" felt the same way. So both of you knew.. this was not gonna last.
So you can't say "I never saw this coming". Cause you did.
He just reacted first.
yes. i didn't expect him to be the one to drop the bomb. i expected us to 'ride out the storm' and then we would find ways to deal with it.
we had our ups and downs. we've fought over his annoying parents before.
and now money has gotten a hold of him and it's a battle over money now. he just wants money. he doesn't care about the marriage or the people who got hurt along the way. it's all about money.
i knew that mentioning that i had spoke to someone about getting a divorce was going to get that kind of response. but here's another food for thought.
i think in previous posts, i said that my h discussed issues he had with me, with his mom. i was hurt that he spoke to her and didn't not address the issue directly with me.
look who i went to when i was contemplating divorce. i went to a colleague. i didn't go to h first. however, i eventually told him that i had these thoughts. and he was not happy with me for even considering divorce, let alone talking to someone else about it.
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The reaction is the same one you would have had given the appropriate amount of time.
i don't know. divorce is not an option with me. i would have sucked it up. ride it out. divorce is the easy way out. it's the cowardly thing to do.
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What if "he" was posting here now instead of you?
Would we be saying anything different?
Put yourself in those shoes.
probably not. except that he would have to set boundaries with me.
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Dumped.. You have done everything right "here".
There has not been much "drama". You have not made the situation worse. You have covered your "emotion" well.
To me.. that gets you the gold star.
You listen.. to a point. You understand.
drama doesn't solve anything. from the get go, i was like a machine with no feelings. besides, drama makes you do stupid things. things that can make the situation worse. i think things through so i hold back and try to make smarter decisions rather than emotional ones.
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The kicker is.. you still can't "see" that this is just simply your BFF.. trying to change your R. Neither one of you knew what to do. But both of you wanted a change. Someone reacted.. and evoked a change. Most likely because they wanted to "see" who you really are.
i don't "see" that he is my BFF. i can see he's trying to change the R by getting rid of me from his life - he can't stand the sight of me. he avoids me at all cost - so no, he doesn't want to see me. and thinks being married to me is going to kill him. not exactly what i expect from a BFF.
the reaction was a poor reaction. threatening divorce and moving ahead with it, creates a crack in the foundation. it's not easy fixing a crack in the foundation.
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So.. again.. who do you want to be?
i want to be happy. i want to be healthy. i want to be the old me again. the girl who the guys admired, loved squash, loved socializing, and loved being girly. the girl who went to weddings alone and didn't care. i was just free, funny, and lively. i cared about people. always have. always will.
this is the girl he originally fell in love with.
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Have you outgrown this R?
Or..
Could you do better?
could i do better? i think so. guy #4 is a great catch. have i outgrown this r? it's possible.
going back to being the girl he originally fell in love with. i can see the old me coming back.
i cut out a big rant. not appropriate. i'll save it for another day.
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You just need to be creative enough.. or patient enough.. to evoke that change in someone else.
i have been patient. i've given him space. i am a bit weary about my talk with my h. i'm not ready yet. i need a practice exercise. remember when you told me to start with a smile? i need something like that to start off with.
You are upset your H doesn't come to you first with issues and goes to his mom. You didn't go to him first either. Have you chastised him in the past for this? and then you do it yourself? He knows you have a double standard here. You can rationalize it all you like, but you weren't fair to him in this moment at all.
You don't believe in divorce? And yet you go and talk to someone about divorce. People who REALLY don't believe in divorce go to a counselor or pastor or something like that. A professional who can help fix it first. Not to a colleauge.
You led him up to a very slippery slope and are upset when he started down it. You were very close to heading down yourself, he just was a typical guy and saw the writing on the wall and didn't want to be the one dumped. You got that title, and I know you don't like it, but really, there is a lot less guilt for you than there is for him. I'm going to be very proud to tell everyone that I DIDN'T start this. And the truth is more that I was not blindsided, and neither were you.
Thank you for getting honest. It means you will accept some of the responsibility of the breakdown. No matter WHAT the reason, we are responsible for our half, 50%, of what went wrong.
Forrest is right--you haven't done anything "wrong" and going dark for this long is great. You have given him a lot of time to think about what went wrong.
If you keep your anger at bay, toward him or his parents, you can probably have a very interesting conversation someday.
Could you leave a semi-friendly note on his door about playing squash? Make up something about needing another person for some reason? Would it bother you right now if he didn't respond? I don't think he will, it just would be a small gesture and soften him up for later...
how do you know i didn't do that on purpose? i was aware that i would get 'caught' when i talked about it.
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You are upset your H doesn't come to you first with issues and goes to his mom. You didn't go to him first either. Have you chastised him in the past for this? and then you do it yourself?
to be honest, i don't remember making that accusation at him. he was upset with me for going to a colleague and when he goes to his mom, i get upset too. but i can't stop him from talking to his mom. i was honest and upfront with him. but he wasn't honest or upfront with me. i'm not saying two wrongs make a right. but how upset he got, is how upset i felt. so put yourself in my shoes .. is what i'm trying to tell him. it's not all about him. but has he put himself in my shoes? no. he doesn't understand how i feel. it's all about him.
me talking to once to a colleague hurts him. yet him telling his mom everything shouldn't hurt me? because it's mommy?? and that's the comparison he made. whatever.
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You don't believe in divorce? And yet you go and talk to someone about divorce. People who REALLY don't believe in divorce go to a counselor or pastor or something like that. A professional who can help fix it first. Not to a colleauge.
i still don't believe in divorce - well, i believe that it is necessary for situations that involve abuse, addiction, or chronic infidelity (which is an addiction). even though i spoke to a colleague about it, it wasn't about justifying a divorce for myself. i wanted to know if that was where my h and i were headed. and two months after that discussion, i did want to go seek counselling. because i started to doubt myself. i didn't even know if it was okay to feel hurt by my h's criticisms. and i was concerned that i was the problem because i was too 'sensitive' or 'petty'. i wasn't in love with anybody else. i loved my h very much and i wanted to work on it but my h didn't believe in marriage counselling. he refused to go. he said he didn't want somebody telling him he was wrong or how he should feel.
i could have easily sought comfort in someone else but i didn't. i would never hurt him that way. but it looks like the feeling isn't quite mutual. i rather he had stuck a giant knife in me if he felt it was all my fault.
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Thank you for getting honest. It means you will accept some of the responsibility of the breakdown. No matter WHAT the reason, we are responsible for our half, 50%, of what went wrong.
you want to know what i'm really angry about? that he hasn't owned his half of the marriage breakdown. he made me feel like it was 100% my fault all this time. never admitted to anything he did wrong. that it was all me. the reason why i shout at the top of my lungs is because i'm not 100% the problem. but he made me feel like it was throughout our entire marriage. that i was petty, that i was clingy, that i was needy, that i wouldn't have sex with him, that i was a procrastinator, that i was the one causing our communication issues .. i'm the inadequate one. that there is something wrong with ME. ME, ME, ME.
so what if i own up to my half of the problem? what does that solve? it solves nothing. absolutely nothing.
often times on this board, i feel like i'm being told that the marriage breakdown was due to 100% me. because i open up and i am honest about my issues. it seems like i'm the only one admitting things so it looks as if i'm 100% at fault.
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Forrest is right--you haven't done anything "wrong" and going dark for this long is great. You have given him a lot of time to think about what went wrong.
i haven't done anything wrong because i haven't done anything at all. call, knock, whatever. nothing. he just wants me out of his life. i've basically left him alone. there is no reason for him to call and there is no reason for him to need me or vice versa.
i'm glad that he is more guilty than me. maybe finally he can carry the hurt that i carried with me for 4 yrs. he'll never see it from my point of view and be compassionate. he's too selfish to ever realize that. it's always been about him. even in this entire ordeal, it's about him. how hurt he is, and how painful the decision is for him. sorry, no compassion from me there. you made your bed now you lie in it.
yes, i'm breaking all the rules today.
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If you keep your anger at bay, toward him or his parents, you can probably have a very interesting conversation someday.
not going to happen.
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Could you leave a semi-friendly note on his door about playing squash? Make up something about needing another person for some reason? Would it bother you right now if he didn't respond? I don't think he will, it just would be a small gesture and soften him up for later...
i wouldn't do it because i wouldn't want a restraining order against me. his family tends to exaggerate things. the note would get blown out of proportion. i would be a crazy stalker, bitter ex-wife .. please keep her away from me otherwise we throw her in jail.
the more angry i get about this .. it doesn't help me in any way. yeah, it's great that i'm owning my part in the problem. so what? if i'm the only one admitting my role in the marriage, what does that do? where is the other half of the puzzle? the other half doesn't think there anything wrong with him.
I think that would be GREAT if his family went balistic over a little note. Nothing would happen to you, and it would show your H that they are seriously flawed. Again, he would wonder what kind of mistake he made--his W leaves a friendly note after ? how many months of no contact?? and his family has a huge reaction??
These little things DO make them think D4ML. And you can lead his thinking about you even now. Nothing over-the-top, just hey H, we're doing XYZ on this day--wonder if you'd like to join us.
No stalker is going to sound like that. And he won't respond. But he'll be thinking of you...
OMG--was the person you spoke to, your colleague, male??
Allen would have told you you had an EA. THAT'S what men think!
yes he was. i would talk to a few ladies in the office. we were a close knit group. but they were all married. so nobody was able to give me any insight.
i was told that this guy recently was d-ed. i didn't want to ask because it's personal and i didn't want to dig up a bad memory. i was friends with this guy but he didn't know anything about my m or the issues i had. when i spoke to my female colleagues, it was often about my MIL. so nobody actually knew what was going on in my m. in fact, many told me they thought all was great.
was it an EA? if you want to call it that, sure. but i spoke to the guy once about my personal issue and it was a 30 min discussion. i wasn't about to dump my issues on him. it would take 3 days. i asked things like .. did you go to counselling, did it help, what is your relationship with your ex like now, what made you consider it .. and even though i asked those questions, i only found out about the real reason for his d several months later through another friend. in my discussion with him, he told me that he wasn't a talker so he wasn't a communicator. he didn't want to go to counselling, etc. so counselling actually failed them.
at the time, i thought that going to counselling meant your m was doomed. it was going to open the flood gates to all the resentment that has built up over the years. and i felt that counselling meant you were d's doorstep. MC had this stigma that it meant your m was in DOA. and i feared taking that step myself .. i was afraid of facing the truth.
yes, i'm happy that he spoke to his mom too but he's also getting a biased opinion. the person who emotionally manipulated her son. she has her own agenda. so going to his mom, was good and bad.
i want to touch on a topic that coach started in newcomers on the common things between was/lbs.
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So the WAS is off the reservation and the LBS is still stuck. The WAS is sending a sign that this R needs to grow, it's not healthy and this is how they are coping. So the WAS is doing things to feed themselves, they have been hurting and their needs have been neglected. Granted they don't always do it in a productive and healthy way but it's what they decided. The WAS is taking care of themselves by doing all the things a good DBer is supposed to be doing. So if the belief is we DB to grow to become a healthier, wiser and stronger individual no matter the outcome then the WAS is walking to do the same thing. We just don't agree on the methods they use.
this paragraph totally contradicts when people say that the LBS are better off for doing the work and the WAS will make the same mistakes over and over again in their next r. this paragraph tells me that the WAS is also doing the work. maybe even better than the LBS! with the WAS becoming healthier, wiser, stronger, better .. what reason do they have to go back to a m with the LBS? there is no reason. in fact, this would mean the WAS will have learned from their mistakes and make their next r with someone else even better. we're not just the LBS. we're also the stepping stone for the WAS to their next great relationship. doesn't leave me feeling any hope at all. love them enough to let them move on to a great relationship with someone else? oh yeah, i love my h so much that i'm willing to let him sleep with someone else. uh no. at that point, there is no love.
i don't buy that the WAS is sending a sign that the r needs to change. you don't let the lbs know that the r needs a change by dropping a d-bomb and following through without an attempt at fixing it. cutting and running is a cowardly move. working on him/herself only makes the wayward see that they deserve better and see no reason to continue with the m.
if you see a problem in the r, then say so. make it known, come up with a plan together to fix it. to drop the bomb, you are cutting off blood to the heart and wanting the r to die. you want something else and not likely with your spouse.
so i don't believe that the advice is to save the m. people laud the advice but think about it. if the WAS is working on him/herself, they won't want to go back to their LBS even if he/she is making changes to improve him/herself as well. the WAS is so focused on themselves and that they deserve better, why go back to your LBS?
maybe i'm just looking at a bunch of closed doors.
Um, this is one person's opinion, and the fact that his W is reading his material....hm...I think he is motivated to put a positive spin on the WAS's mindset.
I've seen it go both ways--there are those that got better than their S's and then gave them the ultimatum. They did it in a very adult way--that this is the goal, this is what I am doing to work on me, come join me in reaching the goal of better communication, sex, etc, and I love you and WANT you to reach this goal with me--it will be painful to me to let you go, etc but if you refuse I have to move on (healthy boundary).
So I see that you agree that most of the WAS's do it in a very cowardly way. I totally agree. Most of it is NOT done like the above.
However, most do not have the tools to do it correctly. Do you see shows on television that help you figure this out? Do friends/colleagues/co-workers know how to do this? No. And a man is going to have even less chance to figure it out.
(btw, *I* don't necessarily think you had an EA, but I know Allen's opinion, and he feels that if you talk to a member of the opposite sex about your marriage problems, that is a BIG no no and you have just had an EA yourself!) And you know, *I* personally would have a HUMUNGOUS problem if my H was talking to a female colleague right now--and on some level he knows it because he keeps assuring me that he tells NO ONE at work about all this. He says he doesn't even discuss much with his idiot D'd and remarried friend who completely screwed over his first family and is on to family #2.
So his only outlet is his parents! Which I'm completely fine with!! Of course they are biased--so what? It's not another woman--that is all I care about.
Yeah, listen, I like a lot of what Coach says, but I think he has to be careful too. I know I wouldn't be posting the same if my H suddenly "saw the light" and was on here as well...
Um, this is one person's opinion, and the fact that his W is reading his material....hm...I think he is motivated to put a positive spin on the WAS's mindset.
i don't give the WAS much credit. but i understand that it's one person's opinion. it makes me uncomfortable that posters are taking it as gospel. to me, it's misleading and giving people false hope. that's not how the majority of the cases are.
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Yeah, listen, I like a lot of what Coach says, but I think he has to be careful too. I know I wouldn't be posting the same if my H suddenly "saw the light" and was on here as well...
i just felt it was a bit misleading. you see posters say how great the advice is but can you explain why it's great?
if you love them, you have to learn to let them go and be a better person for someone else? sorry if i'm all negative about this .. i must be pms-ing. maybe it should be "pass the midol".
however, i did see a follow up post that said "not all WAS are good DB-ers" or something to that effect.
i prefer to stick to the advice of those who have taught me a thing or two. you and forrest have. you are trying to pry my eyes open or pull the wool away from my eyes to see a human being. but all i see is a vindictive, angry, bitter man. (dude, being bitter and angry is going to kill you. but that's a choice you make. not me)
maybe it should be "pass the midol".