Maybe I'm afraid there will ALWAYS be SOME doubt. And that I'll be paralyzed by that. Maybe I'm just overreacting to the shock of my own feelings and need to just step back for a bit and let myself feel it, accept it.
I honestly don't think my H realizes how far I have gone. I guess that's my fault for not really showing him. As I mentioned, I'm surprised even myself. It's so very hard to be honest with myself about how I feel about my M, 7 months into this.
How do MLC spouses tend to react when the LBS is finally fed up? I suspect my H would be shocked if I filed, but would sit back and play the role of the victim while it all "happened" to him.
Thank you again.
M--14 years T--20 years, HS sweethearts dday #1--2002 EA dday #2--2005 bar sl*t dday #3/4--Feb 2010 texting/cell/physical/who knows what Shortly after found out he had been injecting steroids for 2 years
I am in the same camp as you, Grit and Missher. I have not posted to either thread as I have been trying to gather my thoughts.
Reading your post prompted me to at least respond (I will still respond on my own thread as well with probably a lot more detail). So here goes...
The proverbial question..."when do I know if I am done"
Grit's post make some statements that I agree 100% with. I especially agree with Cat's response on his thread.
In short, I think that you "will just know". Now that does not sound like a very "deep" answer but it is how I feel. I also think that for some of us (myself included) we will also love our spouses, even after all of the chit that they put us through. That love though...is one that grow to respect the spouses choices - not agree - but respect them.
Now I will say that I cannot say that I am "standing" for my marriage per se. I choose not to try and define what I am doing. I think sometime we can all get caught up in the "I'm standing" statement. What I can tell you, is that I am simply living my life. If my W cares to join me then great. The woman I love is back in my life. If she decided not to join me, well then I am still a much better person than when I started this journey. I love my wife with all my heart. I also love myself. The woman I fell in love with..wanted the best for me...wanted my happiness. So I will honor that woman..I will honor her by 1) finding my happiness and not making it HER job to make me happy and 2) By respecting her individuality by respecting that right now she is done (or so she thinks she is) and 3) by loving her unconditionally.
Loving unconditionally...we all toss it our there. Many of us claim to have it. Yet...we must get our way. We want what we want when we want it. Is this unconditional love? As Grit mentions in one of his post...can I say that I love you, even if you do not give me what I want? Can I say that I love you and expect nothing in return? I think many people also feel that if you love someone unconditionally that you cannot be angry. IMO - this is false..I think you can be really pissed at a person yet still love them unconditionally. Some feel that you will not feel sad if you love someone unconditionally. I disagree with this thought process as well. I think that part of our healing process is grieving the old marriage...the old marriage that I think we all need to let go off.
I have come to realize how important it is to let go of our spouse. I personally think some folks believe that I may be suggesting that people move on. Quite the contrary.
Letting go, is really allowing our spouses the space and time that they need to fix or address there issues. It put the LBS in a place where they too can work on there issues. I will say that letting go is probably the biggest challenge for the LBS. You are left wondering what is wrong with YOU. You are left with the carnage of the MLCer choices. You are left with the pain.
BUT
I think letting go is necessary in order to ultimately save a marriage. It is also necessary for the LBS to truly heal...to truly become a healthy and whole individual again. It is that health and whole individual that would be in a position to take our MLC spouse back if and when they wake up.
You know it is funny...if you look at MLC...one of the more common issues that the spouses will complain about (at least in a lot of the stichs that I have seen although not all) is control. We tend to chalk it up as MLC script but I wonder how many of us really understand what that control complaint is all about to our spouses. Think about for a sec...
The MLCer says that they felt they were controlled. In some cases, I think we still substantiate that control issue by our inability to let go. By not letting go we just may be continuing to exert OUR control over how THEY feel.
Now I am not saying we should not stand for our beliefs. I am not saying that we should just hand over what they want, especially if they are ill (do you give a drug addict drugs if they ask for them - no). What I am saying is sometime I think we fight them tooth and nail and hold on to them instead of really letting them go, which as I mentioned above can be perceived by them as a form of control.
Look at it from there perspective. They want out - we say no. They think we don't get it. They think that once again we are not listening to what they need and what.
The reason we so no is because it is what WE want. What about what THEY want. Do they not have a right to make choice that are good for them. Once again, I am not suggesting in ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM that we the LBS should just sit back and say.."yeah go ahead file". What I am saying is that when you let go I believe, you validate how they feel and give them the room they need to make the choice that ultimately they will live by. And once again...by letting go you put yourself in a position to heal.
Once you are healed you can then make the choice that is best for YOU and YOUR family.
Sorry if this does not help you amg...I will say it helped me to get this out.
God Bless, Eric
"The difficulties of Life are intended to make us BETTER,not bitter". "Fear is a prison, where you are the jailer. FREE YOURSELF!" "Life is usually all about how you handle Plan B." - Jack3Beans
Thank you Eric. That does help. I will think about it a lot. In my situation, my H has not indicated he wants a D. We just don't talk about IT. Shortly before the most recent d day 7 months ago I asked him if he wanted a D, if he wanted me to D him so he wouldn't have to D me, and if he wanted to move out to think about it. The answer to all 3 questions was "no". I kicked him out on D day. He said that he was "alone in the world" and why didn't he feel like I was his "soulmate". Maybe I just haven't shut him out enough. I have let him come to the house to do chores if he chooses. I keep in touch w his family. I reply (eventually) when he contacts me. I haven't asked him to do anything in months. I think he realized this last week and started a sort of "stand off". I think I need to really pull back to more of a darkened state while I process my new feelings of "doneness".
Thank you for taking the time to help me. Best of luck to you too.
M--14 years T--20 years, HS sweethearts dday #1--2002 EA dday #2--2005 bar sl*t dday #3/4--Feb 2010 texting/cell/physical/who knows what Shortly after found out he had been injecting steroids for 2 years
You know I remember when I first came here and reading Jackthreebeans saying that the M that reconciled were because the LBS outlasted the MLC.
I don't know if I can do that either.
We'll see.
TG do you WANT to "outlast" the MLC? I'm not sure I do. Thinking of it that way kind of makes me feel like I'm on the MLCers timeline (my H) instead of it being about ME. Maybe Jack means it's just a matter of circumstance, how long the LBS is willing to "stand". I've never really felt I was "standing" as much as biding time, maybe even getting my wits about me enough to be able to mentally handle...the next step. Whatever that might be.
M--14 years T--20 years, HS sweethearts dday #1--2002 EA dday #2--2005 bar sl*t dday #3/4--Feb 2010 texting/cell/physical/who knows what Shortly after found out he had been injecting steroids for 2 years
I think part of the confusion and indeed another step in this process is when we just stop looking at them.
"Just stop looking at them." I will think about this today. The difficulty comes when I HAVE to see him or CHOOSE to see him because I won't give up my friends to avoid him. But I suppose that still doesn't mean I have "look" at him, give him my mental space.
My resons for staying seem weaker, vauger and more distant each day. That's my dilemma. I'm certainly not trying to influence anyone or suggest that THEY shouldn't stand. I'm just struggling w my own choices at this time.
Thank you
M--14 years T--20 years, HS sweethearts dday #1--2002 EA dday #2--2005 bar sl*t dday #3/4--Feb 2010 texting/cell/physical/who knows what Shortly after found out he had been injecting steroids for 2 years
I think part of the confusion and indeed another step in this process is when we just stop looking at them.
"Just stop looking at them." I will think about this today. The difficulty comes when I HAVE to see him or CHOOSE to see him because I won't give up my friends to avoid him. But I suppose that still doesn't mean I have "look" at him, give him my mental space.
BINGO!
Originally Posted By: amg2
My resons for staying seem weaker, vauger and more distant each day. That's my dilemma. I'm certainly not trying to influence anyone or suggest that THEY shouldn't stand. I'm just struggling w my own choices at this time.
And I applaud your courage in voicing that struggle so honestly. These are big, personal questions and there are many opinions and viewpoints. Keep posting, keep digging, keep working ... we'll help where we can.
Peace PEI
Holding onto anger to punish someone else, is like lighting yourself on fire to get smoke in their eyes ~ 25yearsmlc
Let me approach your dilemna from a different angle.
Why do you want to leave?
I got this from your first post
Originally Posted By: Amg
And I'm feeling pretty fed up with that. I MIGHT want to be free to pursue who/what I want. And that certainly includes a healthy relationship w a healthy person.
Any other reasons?
I understand these reasons.
I have felt that way.
For me these reasons describe a lack of something. Which is an expectation of what you need from someone else to be happy.
Fed up with what our spouses aren't giving us.
I always get tripped up by my vows here.
I promised to love and honor, for better or worse,
Well its true this is the worse.
So my love and my vows were conditional.
I will promise to do that(love and stay) as long as my spouse is giving me what I want or need.
If I am leaving because of that then that is the wrong reason in my opinion.
My W doesn't want a divorce. Your H doesn't want one.
Also you read my thread and part of this is an expression of who I am and what I believe.
All this is so personal to the individual but if you haven't spent time finding who you are
You will not be making decisions based on that.
You will be reacting to some great wrong that was done to you or something you're not getting from someone else.
Isn't that what our spouses did?
Self righteousness is a substitute for happiness.
When this is out of our thinking. Then we are healing.
Move on (or forward) when there is no more doubt and there is no more anger and self righteousness.
When you have embraced compassion.
When you have forgiven.
Yourself and your spouse.
Until that happens you will do a disservice to yourself and anyone who comes into your life.
My goal is to some day be the person my dog thinks I am
But let there be spaces in your togetherness And let the winds of the heavens dance between you
Love one another, but make not a bond of love: Let it rather be a moving sea between the shores of your souls Fill each other's cup but drink not from one cup. Give one another your bread but eat not from the same loaf
Sing and dance together and be joyous,but let each one of you be alone, Even as the strings of a lute are alone, though they quiver with the same music.
Give your hearts, but not into each other's keeping for Only the hand of Life can contain your hearts. And stand together yet not too near together: For the pillars of the temple stand apart, And the oak tree and the cypress grow not in each other's shadow.
I like this one better from the dude.
My goal is to some day be the person my dog thinks I am
