Where does the WAW go

[AJM]

I can certainly see why others have said to leave. But I would offer a word of caution: getting him to change is not the right mindset. That's controlling and will have short-lived effects most likely. The issues that come across are not his alone, now are they? Leaving is a short term fix to a long term challenge.

I can tell you that if that was what I suspected my wife was doing to me, I would have left. End of story. Know what? Now that I think about it, that was part of what she did. I will live free or die trying. Personally. At any cost. Because I am not co-dependent. I am not a pet rock that can be toyed with and put back. I am not a yes man.

Do the work. Don't play the games even if they seem to work in the short term. You didn't get here by playing games. And the problem doesn't just lie with your husband.

Or else I'll eat my hat ;-)

[Doodi]

Hey guys,

Well tonight has been interesting. H keeps wanting to talk about when I'm leaving. I told him I was ready to go but I still wanted to work on us and I wasn't jumping ship yet but it's like he is pushing me out. It's funny because I feel like I'm the only one fighting for this but I'm the one who dropped the bomb. Of course, I still don't know why. I wonder if it's my issues of being a people pleaser that I can't imagine destroying him permanently. I know I've hurt him but if I could just find my way back.

When I dropped the bomb, I told H that it was my feelings and nothing specific that he did. I couldn't really explain why my feelings were the way they were, I just knew I wasn't happy. I still don't think I'm completely explaining things right because I can't give him a clear road to our healing. He keeps telling me that I said is was my problem so I need to fix it. I just don't know how.

I know I didn't really address the things you guys have said, and I will because they have started the brain. But I just wanted to check in, while this was fresh on my brain. Ok, honestly I'm running because he's in the room now.

Doodi

[CPCajun]

From what I have observed and seen over the years.....

The best way to get him to make some serious and permanent changes is to leave him and let him see that you are DONE and want to end the relationship. Let him feel that there is not turning back for you. Let him feel that it is TOO LATE...

My reason(s) for saying this is the threads from the men who are LBS's on this site. Nothing I have seen works so well as leaving a man and telling him that you don't love him anymore and now it is too late...

I have seen women on this site come on here the same as you. Very rarely have I seen a man make the changes when she comes on here and decides to stay with him and see if she can find some "new and improved" or some possilbe thing she can say to him to wake him up.


I JUST read on here yesterday of one man who said he was GLAD his wife had wanted out because it woke him up to how bad he was. (THREE or more men THEN agreed with him)...


Even Greek didn't get changes UNTIL she wanted out and left.

Do what works.

I also agree with this. My sitch was close to Doodi's. I used to be physically abusive and saw what I done and stopped. What didn't was the verbal abuse. That abuse killed my W soul. I did get several "warnings" about how W felt, but I ignored them. Thats when W found OM and had the EA.
My behavior didn't change and W dropped the bomb. Yes...it was the greatest eye opener I needed. I eve n told W that. I glad on what she did, but not happy on getting to that point. I understand whet I put her thru and I understand what you are going thru.

As for the verbal abuse... When you talk to your spouse about an issue is that when he gets abusive or is it all the time? I know when my wife talked to me about something, I only saw it as nagging. I would listen to the first minute or two, but then just shut down and ignore her. That made her furious, which she took it out on me, which in turn I did the same to her. That's when we got nowhere. Does this sound like the case? Do you and H always do this when trying to discuss things? If so, thats when you need to try something different.
I think that you need to set a boundary as soon as H gets angry, raises his voice or gets verbally abusive.

Boundaries

If you continue with your behavior(yelling, name calling) I feel that you are______________. If you continue to do so, I will walk away. We can continue to have this discussion if you will be calm, open mined, and rational.

[Bridgestone]

Doodi,
I don't know why today of all days I chose to read the newcomers board. It is not where I usually read. I think after reading your sitch I know why.

Your posting brought tears to my eyes sitting here at work. I have been where you are and your feelings are completely understandable, poignant and painful to refeel when I listen to your words. I am sympathetic to your situation.

Another WAW you might want to read up on is Smartcookie. She has not posted for quite a while, but she was quite prolilfic in posting about her feelings and her experiences in dealing with a verbally & emotionally abusive husband.

The WAW forum has become more of a place for LBS to vent about their WAW instead of it's original intent of a safe place for WAS (mostly WAW) to get support they need as they grow and work on the marriage in the context of saving themselves first.

I know one thing I was looking for when I arrived here was assurances that what I feeling & thinking was not 'crazy'. I hope some of the posters like Greek & Sandi have reassured you, that you are not.

How else can we help?

Wishing you peace
Bridge

[Doodi]

Look Inside one WAW~~~~Then & Now

This is how I feel. Plain and Simple. It is one of the most powerful things I've read in awhile. Mostly because I feel like it explains it all.

[Doodi]

@Bridge

Thanks to you I found that post. The post that has given me a voice. I haven't contacted her directly or even know if she is still around...but I have never felt more understood than I did reading her post. The crazy thing is she wrote it months ago. Thank you so much for guiding me in her direction.

Doodi

[Doodi]

Morning All,

This morning is tough.

This morning I feel like I'm being pushed by everyone,(IC, MC, H Friends) to leave. But I also feel like if I'm willing to stay, no matter what my reason, then I should stay.

This morning I feel like I'm lying to myself in thinking that I want to save this, that what I'm really feeling is fear of being on my own and destroying my kids.

This morning I'm having to deal with the fact that one of my lil ones overheard WAY too much last night and has drawn into their minds.

This morning I'm feeling like I'm trying to punk out because I don't like to see the pain I've caused. I prefer to try to fix everything and seeing my H cry triggers me to say whatever it takes to make him stop.

This morning I feel like all my choices have been taken from me. If I had never opened my mouth, then H would be oblivious to everything (horny but happy...well that's what he insists), and my kids would be sleeping through the night and not listening for the fight that ALWAYS happens.

This morning I feel like a loser. I feel like the whole world is against me.

This morning I feel so foggy. I am starting to doubt my memories and feelings because H is so certain that it wasn't that bad. I remember it so differently, am I just that warped/damaged that I can't feel happy.

This morning I just want to die but I won't leave my kids. They are my life.

This morning I wish I had never opened my mouth. I know I'd still be miserable but it would only be me and not my whole family.

I guess you get the point...This morning is just not good.

[pinhead]

This morning I feel like all my choices have been taken from me. If I had never opened my mouth, then H would be oblivious to everything (horny but happy...well that's what he insists), and my kids would be sleeping through the night and not listening for the fight that ALWAYS happens.

This morning I feel like a loser. I feel like the whole world is against me.

This morning I feel so foggy. I am starting to doubt my memories and feelings because H is so certain that it wasn't that bad. I remember it so differently, am I just that warped/damaged that I can't feel happy.

This morning I just want to die but I won't leave my kids. They are my life.

This morning I wish I had never opened my mouth. I know I'd still be miserable but it would only be me and not my whole family.

I guess you get the point...This morning is just not good.

My wife said this last night, Doodi. It's a normal feeling, but it's not fair to you or your husband. My wife was never going to find clarity, find her way out of the fog while living with me. Perhaps separation will give her that insight, but that's not why I told her we must separate.

I'm sorry for the confusion and pain you're feeling. But I think you know what's best for you, and you're letting fear drive your actions.

[AJM]

Doodi, good morning.

I suspect that you feel this way because you have doubt. Because when you said, I do, you meant it. But the conflict may come from the need to change.

I would caution you to not re-remember the past. That is what it sounds like you are doing from an outsider's point of view.

My take on this is that your revisiting things is not a bad thing. Change is what is happening. That is also not a bad thing. The question is really whether or not you and your husband can change together or not.

I disagree vehemently that the change needs to occur in your husband alone. I disagree with the others that leaving is the way to solve this because that is asking just him to change.

I don't disagree that you are in pain. I don't disagree that you need change. I don't disagree that your husband needs to change as well. You AND your family need change. That much is clear. What is not clear is why or what the changes need to be. That's part of the work. And it is not easy. It is not quick. It is not without pain. It is worth it.

What is clear to me is that you have confusing feelings and need to find out why.

To reiterate: I do not condone your husband's behavior. But I also do not condone leaving as the answer nor do I think that making him (only) change is the answer you seek.

Telling your husband how you feel is not the issue. You don't need to fix his feelings, Doodi. Part of this is him knowing how you feel. That may be the first time in a long time you have been completely honest with him. This is you. He can accept that it is you or he cannot. That is your risk. You told him how you feel right now, and that you may leave. That is his risk. Either of you can choose to accept it or to leave.

What I do recommend is that you both be much more careful and respectful of each other and the kids feelings. Do NOT let the kids hear the conversations - at all costs. You and your husband should agree to not talk to mutual friends or family about what's going on. They will tell you both to leave and "see what happens". That is a recipe for disaster in most cases.

Respect Doodi. Respect yourself. Respect your family. Respect your husband. Expect - demand - the same from him.

If this was clear and exactly what you wanted (to leave) you would have done it. But I suspect there is much more to this than just actions your H has done. The damage that is going on now may just be the two of you remaking your marriage. Or it could be the end. But either way you are going to find out and either way your marriage won't be the same. That's not a bad thing, Doodi.

I don't think for a second that your marriage has to be over. I don't think you do either. But you need to do the work. As does your Husband.

One other thing that comes to mind: you seem to be placing a lot of the burden on your husband for the relationship. Why?

I still haven't heard the good qualities that attracted you to him in the first place. How come? I haven't heard about the qualities that you admire in him. So far, nothing positive.

Your feelings are your feelings Doodi. Feel them. Examine them. Find out why they are there. Find out what you need to change to get the love you want. Be careful not to do irreparable damage and be sensitive to your Husband's feelings as well. He is human and has his own feelings. I don't think for a second you should try to make him feel better with regards to your own feelings - hasn't that been a problem long enough? You both need to learn to be honest with your feelings with each other and rather than looking at each other's faults, look for the good things. Start there and then deal with the problems. They will be much more manageable if you can approach it that way.

My thoughts. I wish you peace Doodi.

[AJM]

For crying out loud. I always think of one more thing later

He's scared. He had no idea how bad she hurt.

That is from smartcookie's post. Why do you think he did not know she hurt like that? Why is it that resonates with you? Why would it be such a mystery to him that you are hurting like that, and why do you take responsibility for how the kids should be raised and he is wrong? Again, I'm not claiming that what he did was right. I can't see it and cannot judge it at this point. I have not walked in your shoes.
But is it right that it is a surprise? Is it right that you would try to control the way he interacts with the kids? That sounds controlling and I would guess that at some level he would resist that perhaps without even knowing why. Does everyone assume that men just don't have feelings and that women are the only one's that are right when it comes to raising kids?
I can see the control of a woman in raising the kids becoming a power struggle at some deep subconscious level. I can see that the controlling behavior would prevent him from really connecting to his children, that he likely loves very deeply.

Last question: is your relationship so focused on just the kids that maybe you lost sight of the partnership in favor of making your viewpoint the only one that matters when it concerns the kids? I don't for a second discount your hurt, but it was it really him that caused the hurt? Alone?