On two ends of the world..

[ris]

Thank you FMV and PH. I do have moments when I feel strong and "I will not let this affect me" and and 5 minutes later something silly on TV has me in tears because it brings up a memory or a future plan we made. I do realize I will eventually be fine, no matter how this ends, but I just really want to stay together.

Now that the weekend is over, it limits our possible communication quite a bit, because when I get up and go to work, it's late afternoon for H. So we have no chance to casually meet on IM, one of us has to actually email the other one.

Last night I read the DR chapter about making up. How we shouldn't try to be right, but just make up as soon as possible. What about the resentment that it brings though?

H has a shorter fuse than me so when we fight it's usually him who makes things ugly. Then after a while (unless I talk to him first) he will start a conversation as if nothing had happened. It drives me nuts! I always give in, but I'm not happy about it, I feel that he should own up to it - not necessarily admit I was right in the argument, but acknowledge and possibly apologize for the way he spoke to me/treated me/started throwing in completely irrelevant issues.

This is what hurts me the most, not that he disagrees, but HOW he does it. It absolutely doesn't make me want to make up with him after a fight. It feels like I agree with that treatment.

Suggestions?

[ris]

Oh and I did try to raise that issue with him once (possibly at a bad moment). When he started a casual talk, at first I replied, but then I said that I'm still upset over the fight. That just set him off and we fought again...

[FindingMyVoice]

Then after a while (unless I talk to him first) he will start a conversation as if nothing had happened. It drives me nuts! I always give in, but I'm not happy about it, I feel that he should own up to it - not necessarily admit I was right in the argument, but acknowledge and possibly apologize for the way he spoke to me/treated me/started throwing in completely irrelevant issues.

Ouch. Ouch. Ouch. Yes, this was our pattern too. So how are you left feeling after an interaction like that? Can you put some 'feeling' words to it? For example, disreguarded, dismissed, unimportant?

Oh and I did try to raise that issue with him once (possibly at a bad moment). When he started a casual talk, at first I replied, but then I said that I'm still upset over the fight. That just set him off and we fought again...

Yes, this is eerily similar too. But could you expand on 'sets him off', ie what behaviours does he exhibit? Ie Does he yell? Cricitize? Blame? Tell you that you 'shouldn't' feel the way you do? Do you feel you're in harms way? Are you afraid of him at that point?

[ris]

Then after a while (unless I talk to him first) he will start a conversation as if nothing had happened. It drives me nuts! I always give in, but I'm not happy about it, I feel that he should own up to it - not necessarily admit I was right in the argument, but acknowledge and possibly apologize for the way he spoke to me/treated me/started throwing in completely irrelevant issues.

Ouch. Ouch. Ouch. Yes, this was our pattern too. So how are you left feeling after an interaction like that? Can you put some 'feeling' words to it? For example, disreguarded, dismissed, unimportant?

Do you mean after a fight that has gone bad or when he tries to pretend nothing's wrong?
After a fight I feel angry and hurt and I regret opening up because it gives him more ammo to shoot me with. It makes me upset that he says things just to hurt me.

When he tries to chat me up later I feel that unresolved anger and hurt. I feel that my feelings are ignored and I'm forced to squash them just to patch things up. I'm trying to find an adjective that would describe how it makes me feel... I guess "hurt" is very general. Ignored, disregarded and disrespected.

Oh and I did try to raise that issue with him once (possibly at a bad moment). When he started a casual talk, at first I replied, but then I said that I'm still upset over the fight. That just set him off and we fought again...

Yes, this is eerily similar too. But could you expand on 'sets him off', ie what behaviours does he exhibit? Ie Does he yell? Cricitize? Blame? Tell you that you 'shouldn't' feel the way you do? Do you feel you're in harms way? Are you afraid of him at that point?

He abandons logical respectful discussion and gets into a mode of disagreeing with every word I say. Gradually gets more and more rude and sarcastic. Just really hurtful, going for things that will do the most damage. I'm not physically afraid of him and he doesn't yell.

[FindingMyVoice]

When he tries to chat me up later I feel that unresolved anger and hurt. I feel that my feelings are ignored and I'm forced to squash them just to patch things up. I'm trying to find an adjective that would describe how it makes me feel... I guess "hurt" is very general. Ignored, disregarded and disrespected.

Have you shared those feelings - being disrespected, disregarded and ignored - with him, or do you feel safe doing so? Or, if you have already, what was his response?

He abandons logical respectful discussion and gets into a mode of disagreeing with every word I say. Gradually gets more and more rude and sarcastic. Just really hurtful, going for things that will do the most damage. I'm not physically afraid of him and he doesn't yell.

That must really hurt. And when it gets to this point, what typically do you do? Do you tell him how much you're hurting? Do you match his anger with anger of your own? Or do you go into withdrawal - retreat and/or back down?

[TimeHeals]

He abandons logical respectful discussion and gets into a mode of disagreeing with every word I say. Gradually gets more and more rude and sarcastic. Just really hurtful, going for things that will do the most damage. I'm not physically afraid of him and he doesn't yell.

I'd like to read an exchange verbatim

[ris]

Have you shared those feelings - being disrespected, disregarded and ignored - with him, or do you feel safe doing so? Or, if you have already, what was his response?

I haven't. To be quite honest I haven't exactly realized what was happening there until I wrote my earlier post today. I just never analyzed it. All I knew was that I was unhappy with the way he was trying to pretend that nothing happened.

That must really hurt. And when it gets to this point, what typically do you do? Do you tell him how much you're hurting? Do you match his anger with anger of your own? Or do you go into withdrawal - retreat and/or back down?

I'm not a hot-headed person by any measure and it takes A LOT to make me retaliate. In fact, in our whole relationship, I only ever lost my temper during a fight once (I did a lot of other bad and/or unproductive things, but didn't try to hurt him back). I try to explain and and to steer conversation onto a logical path which at this point is completely pointless and eventually withdraw. I don't back down though, I'm very stubborn..

[TimeHeals]

I try to explain

I'd like to read a transcript of one of these exchanges especially including "explaining".

[FindingMyVoice]

I haven't. To be quite honest I haven't exactly realized what was happening there until I wrote my earlier post today. I just never analyzed it. All I knew was that I was unhappy with the way he was trying to pretend that nothing happened.

Hey that's ok...I think a lot of us have had the same experience. It's good you're beginning to see what's happening - the pattern - great work ris, you should be proud of the effort you're making. Well, all I can suggest then is that you share those feelings with him. As long as you're sure you won't be in harm's way, what have you got to lose?

Granted you have to share them in a calm way if you can; without blame - just make a calm statement about it. It wasn't until I started sharing with my H that the way our patterns made me feel disrespected, dismissed - all those same things - did he start to slow down and stop blaming. It didn't happen right away, expect it to be gradual. But it's a healthy, proactive and self-respecting way to approach a conflict.

It's a matter of changing your half of the pattern. When you change, the other person's response often changes, because what they're reacting to has changed. Trying to stay aware of your own feelings and sharing them, can help you stay calm and avoid getting into those circular arguements that go nowhere.

Granted, sometimes it doesn't happen so neatly. You may find him still blaming, trying to tell you that you 'shouldn't' feel 'that' way. Don't know if you've read any of Harriet Lerner's work (Dance of Intimacy is my favorite; Dance of Anger also excellent). She often speaks of 'Change - Change back' patterns. This is when one person is working to change their half of a pattern, and the other person tries all sorts of reactions because they're not used to the new change. So it sometimes helps to think about how he might react, and plan some 'counter-moves' of your own.

I try to explain and and to steer conversation onto a logical path which at this point is completely pointless and eventually withdraw. I don't back down though, I'm very stubborn..

Yah, that's a tough road. I'd try just sticking with your own feelings about things; trying to be logical when emotions are high on both sides rarely works, as you've obviously seen!

[TimeHeals]

Me: do you believe that I don't have an interest in going to a topless/nude beach?
H: it doesn't matter

So you are telling me it doesn't matter if I go to a nude beach? Shall I go alone, or will you be my chaperone?

Me: But why you don't believe me?
H: its seems very fake

Are we talking about me not wanting to go topless to a nude beach or my breasts?

Me: I've tried to be open with you and talk about things that I normally wouldn't tell anyone and you think I'm lying?
H: you are not an open person

That's a strange thing to say about somebody you are accusing of wanting to go topless to a nude beach. Am I not open or am I off to flaunt my breasts before throngs of strangers?



I'm afraid you have me all figured out, and I'm not suprised. How could I possibly hide my raging desire to flaunt my breasts before stangers To think I gave all that up... sigh
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I'm not sure you should use this exact kind of dialog, but the idea is to kind of be playful and teasing