WAW Using God III

[DanF]

I'm with you, Dan.

If he does tell her it's over because he want it over, will that make a difference? It may. Then again it may not.

I should have been clearer on that one. I didn't mean he literally say that line to his W, I meant that he needed to say it to himself and really believe it.

Sorry if that was confusing Pigskin........

[pigskin]

THAT is being on the back burner no matter how you slice it.
You need to let her think that you WILL NOT TAKE HER BACK NOW NO MATTER WHAT SHE DOES....

That is taking yourself off the back burner. She knows she can have you back at any time because you keep telling her how you have changed and things will be different. It should be YOU telling her what she is telling you and it should be her saying the things to you that you are telling her. This only proves you are the pursing one and she is the one backing off. it should be the other way around.

You are lying to yourself with this talk of not being on the back burner. It is just talk and isn't being in the least followed up by action. You should be telling her it now doesn't matter who is right or wrong and that you have now decieded that it just isn't going to work between you as lovers and that it would be best if you divorced. That she is right in that maybe you can't change and maybe you couldn't forgive each other for the past...

Not only that, but you have even told her that you don't want the divorce and yet you are filing... That is WEAK... You should be saying.. "You better believe I want this divorce. I will NOT be with a woman that can't be faithful. I won't be with one. End of story. Nothing more to talk about. See you in court."

THAT is how you let them go. There is no catch 22. You aren't being honest with yourself.

Thanks for the feedback, Gucci. I thought I did pretty well with the discussion but it is good to see a 3rd party opinion.

Not to sound defensive, but I left out a lot of context of the discussion. Me asking her the "do you want to try?" question was after listening to her go on about how I never made any effort to reach out or work through our problems. I refuted that by telling her everything that she conveniently forgot about. Then I said I have no interest in "reaching out" to a woman who belongs to another man. Or a woman who has no interest in me or our marriage. She claimed that wasn't the case. I said in so many words, "Fine. Tell me right now why I should even give you the time of day. Why I shouldn't just answer the phone, hear that it's you, and say F you, "click". You tell me you are truly committed."

The tone of the conversation wasn't me saying "please baby, let's fix this. I've made all your changes, just PLEASE give me a chance." I have taken action. I have not filed, I'm waiting on the lawyer's paperwork. This is all just killing time. I fully intend to follow through unless she does a 180. When/if she does, believe me I will dictate to her everything I need to see to keep me from signing off. I told her I don't want her back for any other reason than her true love for me. Short of that, I have no interest.

Telling her I agree with divorce would not be truthful, no matter how I said it, and she knows that. She knows how faithful I am to the Catholic church, and she knows full well that I believe marriage is forever. The day I sign the papers I still will believe that. But I have to accept reality. I have tried telling her I'm done when I told her I'm getting a lawyer and starting the process. It made no difference at all. I've used every tactic in the book.

I will state this: there is ZERO chance of me taking her back once the dissolution goes through. None. I have a friend who made that mistake and I will not go down that road, ever. When it is done, she is dead to me.

So I'm not on the back burner just waiting for her. I will not delay once I have papers in hand. The clock is ticking for her. There will be no overtime.

I don't know if this helps characterize the tone a little better, but I'd be interested in hearing what you think.

[pigskin]

I'm with you, Dan.

It's still so difficult to see pursuing on our part. For me, anyway. When I read Gucchi's breakdown of the post, I can see where things could have been handled differently. I don't want to throw Pigskin under the bus. He did pretty good. It simply show you how hard it is to really, truly and fully let go. I know I'm not there yet, either.

It also shows that we do still have time to get it right. Yes, his W sounds like she is cake eating and she knows that he wants her back. She has yet to do anything about it. If he does tell her it's over because he want it over, will that make a difference? It may. Then again it may not. I know that anything is better than limbo. I also understand holding on to hope. It seems so final to give in and let them go, when that seems to be the only thing that works, if anything will work.

Hang in there, Pigskin. You can do this!

Thanks Dan and IDU. I believe I have let her go; I really will accept the divorce just as I will accept a last minute change of heart. But I am through waiting for it, as I noted. Once the papers are in hand, she's going to need a hail mary pass to stop it.

[pigskin]

You aren't being honest with yourself.

I agree. You are trying to play both sides and it doesn't work. You said early on that you would never D because it went against your beliefs and values (I understand that). Then you filed for D. It comes across in your posts, if we can sense it then imagine what you wife feels.

Not a 2x4 but a observation from my perspective.

Cheers

I hope my follow up makes more sense, coach. I don't think I'm playing both sides, it's just the 4th quarter here and I'm not letting her slide. I told her I need full commitment - both of us working the issues the other says we have. She is not being let off the hook, I'm not begging her to reconsider. I am cool either way, and I am ready either way. Maybe that IS playing both sides, I don't know.

I DON'T want a divorce; none of us would be here if that were the case, but if that is what happens, I will be totally happy moving on to my new life.

[Coach]

I've used every tactic in the book.

try letting her go

I will state this: there is ZERO chance of me taking her back once the dissolution goes through. None. I have a friend who made that mistake and I will not go down that road, ever. When it is done, she is dead to me.

She knows how faithful I am to the Catholic church, and she knows full well that I believe marriage is forever.

Be honest with yourself. This isn't congruent.

[pigskin]

I've used every tactic in the book.

try letting her go

I will state this: there is ZERO chance of me taking her back once the dissolution goes through. None. I have a friend who made that mistake and I will not go down that road, ever. When it is done, she is dead to me.

She knows how faithful I am to the Catholic church, and she knows full well that I believe marriage is forever.

Be honest with yourself. This isn't congruent.

I guess I don't know what "letting her go" means. In my mind I have - our talks were all initiated by her, with me just listening and replying to lies and incorrect recollection of facts. I do nothing with her outside of family business and treating her as civilly as I would a person off the street. I give her no more affection than I give to any other woman I know.

If she called today and said she has a lawyer and wants to fasttrack the process, I'd say "cool". Is it what I want? No. But I don't NEED this marriage.

It won't change my feeling that marriage is supposed to be forever, but when a spouse walks away even the church says you can divorce. I am eager to get going with the next phase, whatever it may be. So yes, when the papers are signed, she will be dead to me. I will be calling my pastor the same day to start the annulment process.

Again, not what I WANT, but we don't always get what we want. We have to then face reality and deal with it. My reality will be that my marriage of "forever" was stripped from me despite my best efforts to save it. Maybe I'll find someone else, maybe I'll live the rest of my life as a single man. I don't know what God will have in store for me, but it will be great no matter what.

[Coach]

She doesn't "want" to be married to you, she has a R with another man, and you still want to be married to her. She can't respect or be attracted to a man that would allow that.

What happened when the pastor from her church tried to reason with her?

"God himself dares not appear before a hungry man except in the form of bread." - Ghandi

Stop being cake. Let her go.

It won't change my feeling that marriage is supposed to be forever

Feelings are different than beliefs. Challenge both.



Waiting on her to throw a Hail Mary isn't going to work. I would prefer to have the ball in my own hands.

[pigskin]

She doesn't "want" to be married to you, she has a R with another man, and you still want to be married to her. She can't respect or be attracted to a man that would allow that.

I don't want to be married to her under those conditions, no. What I want is a marriage to her with full commitment from her. Dropping the OM forever, fixing the issues we have. I don't want the current state at all - I want it over, via divorce or her waking up. I'd sign the papers today if they were in front of me. I'm not "allowing" it anymore, I just don't have the papers yet.

What happened when the pastor from her church tried to reason with her?

Nothing. No details were offered as it was a confidential discussion, but the pastor implied that he told her everything that would be expected of someone who is in a christian marriage, and tried to explain how she is in complete conflict with that. He wanted to convince her that she has much better odds at happiness with me, and inviting Christ into the marriage, than with what she is doing. He spoke to the OM as well, and I assume the same message was given. But as I replied to him, they are "lost" and beyond any hope save prayer.

I'm not waiting on a hail mary. I'm just saying if it happens, so much the better. But she has from now until I get the papers to do so.

[knittedscarff]

If she called today and said she has a lawyer and wants to fasttrack the process, I'd say "cool". Is it what I want? No. But I don't NEED this marriage.

Quick response: Sorry you are still dealing with her lies. She doesn't want to reconcile and even her preacher at her fake church can see through her lies. I mean, that's like being the cardboard cut-out in a room of fake Christmas trees.

Everyone can see through her disguise but her. You may want to pray that God leads her to the truth and find peace in her waywardness, but don't try to interrupt her path. She picked it. Let her travel it. With the OM.

Do you really think she's not returning to you bc she's going to see the OM unexpectedly or would have to go to another church? Ask her to name fifteen people by their first and last names at her church...bet she can't (actually don't ask her, it's not really a question for debate). She's lying still.

She's lying to you and to herself. That's what liars do. They lie.

Anyway, if you are lawyered up and since she's a head case in this fake church, you'll probably be having some wacky negotiations. One, know that it's going to cost you. I had to do that with my ex - even though he wasn't really spiritual one way or another. But I spent extra money hammering out the custody/ visitation agreements so the kids would be raised in the faith we agreed to when they were born.

Most lawyers are not very interested in getting down to the nuts and bolts of the religious aspect of child rearing after a divorce. There were a couple of times when my lawyer - a good one and a shark - wanted to focus on the $$$ negotiations - custody, child care, trust funds. I protected my assets but anyone can make money. It's not going anywhere and you can always make more.

But you can't take back your kids falling away from their faith if you have a parent who undermines how you agreed to raise them. Whatever you have to do to minimize your kids to your wife's fake church, do it. It will be the best money you ever spend.

Other than that, good luck. If you believe that God is good, then he's giving you a little miracle now. You are seeing what your wife is really made of - excuses - and you have been given an escape raft by Him. Take it. Go to the land of truth and joy. Stay away from her confusion.

[pigskin]

Thanks knittedscarff. I do pray for her to be enlightened by the truth. One day she will be, but it may come too late for this marriage.

I'm not too worried about the agreement to raise the kids in the catholic faith. Everything in our history of raising them has been in the church - baptism, mass attendance, first communion, etc., so there is no ambiguity as to how they were being raised. There's no evidence for any lawyer to prove that there was any question on the matter. When I asked my lawyer about it, he told me that the courts would go by historical precedent. So even if my W were dumb enough to try to fight it, she'd lose.

I know my W doesn't want to reconcile, but prayer is powerful, and a lot of people, many of whom I've never met, are praying for us. All things are possible with God, and people's hearts can and do change. But like I noted in the prior posts, this is not an open ended waiting period for her to come around. The process of dissolution has started and I won't stop it unless I see a complete change of heart, full commitment, and agreement to abide by strict conditions of reconciliation.

Once we've signed on the dotted line, the game is over. There will be no rematch.