Bustorama-Thread 1

[bustorama]

Tnx for feedback, pinhead =) Ya, I will re-read the Rock section.

I went to outdoor movie in park with girls last night where W joined us. Fun movie and time with girls. Dropped W off at her car. W is stressed out about potential complication from her breast reduction. Called me about it late last night flipping out some, sent me picture of possibly infected suture, and asked me to call her surgeon for her. I have medical background, so I agreed. Surgeon gave instructions and asked for her to move her appointment up to earlier in the week. This is one of those nether region things where some people on the board suggest that my calling for her is "pursuing" and being a marionette or co-dependent or cake-eating. I see it as being helpful (I would do same for any friend, and I have had other people ask me to do same cause of my background). Thoughts?

Fun birthday party day for D5 today. Had a great time with girls and with parents of D5's friends. W and I drove there together with girls. I met some of W's new girl friends from last 6 months that I hadn't met before and actually got along with them. We were cracking up about some stuff. Complimented W's cupcakes to friends, and W seemed pleased. They are really good, I am going to regain all my separation diet weight from eating the leftovers. I spent most of my time there with the girls or with other adults and not so much with W.

Kiddos napping now, and W coming over later to participate in present opening with D5. The "separation" is strange because we seem to be seeing each other so damn much, but it's always in the context of family time. Should have more time to do stuff by myself and for myself in the upcoming week =)

[pinhead]

LOL, when you said cupcakes, I thought you were talking about hooters... You can see that I'm seriously deprived!

Is your wife incapable of dialing a phone? I don't think that was pursuing, since she asked you to call the surgeon, but it's probably because she's still expecting you to make decisions for her. I don't think there's anything wrong with you giving your medical opinion though.

It's weird to try and do NC etc when you have kids that you both participate in raising. The schedule that my W and I had earlier figured out (before this wave of MC) had us seeing each other almost everyday. While that would be good for us in terms of both seeing the girls a lot, I wonder how healthy it would be. At least it would give her lots of opportunities to see your GAL/180s etc.

[bustorama]

With my W, lately, hooters are rarely out of sight, out of mind, so I understand the confusion.

Yeah, at earlier points in our separation, there was less contact between us. The increased contact really started with me caregiving for her after the surgery and then has continued in the last couple of weeks with end of summer/start of school/birthday party/other family-related activities. I do think that she has seen changes in me and GAL/180's from the contact (leading to her commenting about how much happier I seemed and she was sorry it had taken her moving out for it to happen). I still never initiate calls, texts or emails to her (unless she starts them), so it's weird there can be so much contact.

I actually wouldn't mind more time for me to work on some of my GAL activities and for her to reflect on our failed M and, perhaps, to miss me. I have had a >50% responsibility for the kiddos the last month because of her surgery recovery and am looking forward to getting back to a more balanced situation. There's also some stuff I need to get done with the house, and some GAL to be caught up on.

[Puppy Dog Tails]

This is one of those nether region things where some people on the board suggest that my calling for her is "pursuing" and being a marionette or co-dependent or cake-eating. I see it as being helpful (I would do same for any friend, and I have had other people ask me to do same cause of my background). Thoughts?

Why ask for our thoughts, if you're just going to summarily dismiss them, and keep on pursuing anyway?

(And this time, it was actually "rescuing" more than "pursuing," but still ...)

Knock yourself out.

Puppy

[bustorama]

I'm not summarily dismissing, Puppy. I really am looking for discussion/understanding on it because it is something I am struggling with. I really am trying to get clarity on what is the "right" thing to do (not from a "strategic" perspective either, but from a relationship perspective)???

Before I GROSSLY neglected her AND cheated on her -- she tells me she's had enough neglect (and is hurt from the EA) and has had enough. Where we are now is she says she needs more time and space to heal "her way" and separate from me. She is not cheating on me, she is not mentioning divorce, and there has been some warming betwen us. Now, SHE comes to ME looking for help.

1) I hear from one group of people that I should not respond to/"rescue" her. That why would I want to lower myself to helping someone/accepting scraps from someone that is leaving me. That I am not challenging HER to work on the relationship.

2) I hear from another set of people in these threads that LRT/being non-responsive may be a bad idea when neglect has been a driving force in the separation and that the appropriate 180 then is to be responsive. Wouldn't not being helpful when she asks for my help be neglecting her? Especially when I would provide the same help to a non-spouse?

I know this dilemma is not unique to my situation. The same dynamic/potential conflict I've seen in many other sich's on here (pinhead, john, dsh, others I'm sure). I'm sure further discussion of it would help not only me, but others.

[pinhead]

Busto,

The problem is that our sitch's really aren't that different, even though we've neglected our wives. All of the WAS feel neglected to some degree.

It's a very fine line we're walking, and though I'm trying something different, I'm starting to see the wisdom in Gucci's path. Not just for me, but for all of us. No matter how strong I appear around W, how attentive I am to our kids, how confident I am, W is still in her fog. And perhaps the only way for that to dissipate is via some sort of separation.

We're all so scared of separation, like it's a curse that'll ruin us forever.

[Puppy Dog Tails]

I would focus on doing things for her that she's incapable of doing herself, and make sure those are in RESPONSE to her asking, not you proactively offering the help. That's where I'd recommend drawing the line.

Puppy

[bustorama]

I see the great wisdom in what both of you are saying.

Bit of follow-up, relevant to what you said Puppy, something I'd like further input on, an issue/weakness in my wife is that she has low self-esteem and is not assertive in stating her needs/desires (I have the same issue in some respects that I am working on in IC and this dynamic undoubtedly contributed to the deterioration of our relationship). So, she will say something that HINTS at what she wants, but she will not assertively ask for it. She also perceives herself as being incapable of doing certain things that she probably IS capable of or at least SHOULD be capable of (e.g., handyman stuff, calling doctor to discuss medical issues on phone). So, there is this passive-dependence aspect to her.

In the past, when I would not respond to things that she had hinted at and which she PERCEIVED herself as being incapable of doing she would get angry and resentful that I was not responsive to her needs. That I failed to provide her with acts of service. Long-term, I would want us to address and resolve this passive-aggressive, (co)-dependence dynamic. In the short-term, I am unclear whether I should be helping her in RESPONSE to her hints to do things that *I* perceive her as being truly incapable of doing VS. things that I know *SHE* PERCEIVES herself as being incapable of doing based on our history.

Thanks for thoughts!

Thoughts?

[Coach]

W is still in her fog. And perhaps the only way for that to dissipate is via some sort of separation.

Fog occurs when the temperature approaches the dew point. I found that I had control over the amount of heat I was giving off.

[bustorama]

Thanks, Coach!

Dropped D9 and D5 off at first day of school. Both were a little nervous but super cute. W came by to pick up D2 and drop her off at daycare and then meet us at school. D5's first day at Kinder and they did like a 1-hr thing with orientation where the parents stayed with them to help them acclimate. We were asked to do a drawing assignment for our kids and enter parent info into computer. I went to enter parent information into computer (10-15 secs), and when I got back W was all bent out of shape that I had "run off" and "left her" to do the assignment "all by herself" that she was bad at art and I had just left her to do it. She was getting all angry and accusatory at me, saying I wasn't doing any of it, etc. I said I was not responsible for her feelings of discomfort. She kept escalating. I calmly told her that I was happy to participate in the art project, that I felt disrespected by the way she was speaking to me, and that I wanted her to stop speaking to me that way. She told me angrily that I had disrespected her for the last 2 years. I told her I understood that she was angry and hurt, and that I was sorry for hurting her. In a much calmer voice, she told me she was still working on it. Rest of orientation she was civil and more friendly and cooperative.

Did I handle this right???