Beyond Depression..but still a losing battle?

[awest1217]

Right now it seems like you are where I was last December and January. I really don't know waht to say, but I will give you the advice that one of my friends gave me. My friend just got divorced (she is 25). Her H was cheating on her and also possibly doing drugs. She found out two years ago about the cheating and her and her H went to marriage counseling through their church. They had a mentor couple and everything. Well one year later after she thinks things are going well...she finds out the A never ended. She filed that week.

When she found out the A never ended, she went to the mentor couple and said how do you know when to stop trying because like us she did not want to D. The couple said when you have lost hope.

I really took in that information and when I got to the point where I felt there was no hope...that is when I filed. Could we still reconcile? Sure it is possible, but given all that has happened, I honestly don't see it happening. I don't see H giving up his life in order to be a H and a father (see my thread for more info). H and I still get along and could really have a great R and M, but he doesn't want that. He wants to be friends and that is it...and sadly because I love S so much, he has gotten his way.

Just think about what has happened and only you will know what is the best thing to do. I gave it my all right up until the end. I am still very supportive, but finally in June I said enough is enough and could stick to it. Then getting the postcard and seeing H with OW...well that was that. I knew all hope was gone. There is still a spark, I am still attracted to him, and I still would love to try to really work it out, but honestly he never wanted to marry me (he has said it many times) and he never gave us a fighting chance.

Think about you and really be honest with yourself. When you are ready, it will be easier to do. Not easy, but easier. A M is work, but that work must come from both sides so if you want to go back to talking all the time...do it. If you think you want to keep distancing yourself..do that, but just do what is best for you.

I am glad you had fun on your trip!

[Lucky11too]

That's exactly what I was thinking...this is eerily similar to what you were going thru last December…with the distance growing but yet him trying to hold on but not necessarily for the right reasons. That’s good advice that your friend gave you and that you are now passing on to me. I think I still have hope (although don’t know have naïve or blind it is) but there is hope and that is what is keeping me going. I still don’t know exactly what to do or what direction to go, but it is that hope that keeps me trying to figure that answer out. I do have 2 things in my favor though which I think give me a fighting chance. 1) H is still extremely attracted to me and desires me physically (whether or not I should give into his desire is questionable, but at least that desire is there). 2) Although H’s actions are often for the benefit of himself, he is not 100% selfish, so that gives me some room to work with. He always asks how I am doing and about my day, and will give me backrubs when needed.

That being said, here’s the latest update. Interesting, so let me know your take on it. H texted last night to see what my plans were for the night. The normal – dinner, S bath time, etc. He said he was having a bad day (or “was in a mood” as he said), so I invited him to dinner, but he declined saying that he just didn’t feel like eating or being around other people but instead just wanted to veg out with me. Hmm, interesting. Just wants to be with me, huh? I said ok and that he could stop whenever. S was in a good mood so we had a great time playing last night. Finally I got him down to bed then followed up with H to see what his plans were. If it was ok with me, he still wanted to come over. So he came and when he got there, we kind of nestled together, and we talked about what was going on with our lives. He talked about how stressed out he is about the new places (will it go thru or not) and his frustrations with his current place. He also talked about how he was feeling so off that day and was supposed to go to a baseball game with his friends, and didn’t even want to do that. I asked him if he could identify the feeling (depression, add, etc), but he could really name it more than just saying it was just everything. (I couldn’t help but think that my distancing myself from him was adding to this, but that’s a good thing if it’s affecting him). I talked about S/work/our trip this past weekend. Then he gave me a backrub (shoot, he has awesome back rubbing hands – I’m definitely going to miss that if we get D’s! =P) Then I returned the favor and gave him a back run. He was there for about 2 hours and he said he now felt better there with me than he has all day. Pat on my back! Haha. I don’t always want to be his shoulder to cry on so to speak, I want much more than that, but I think it’s good if he is realizing that being with me is better than being without me, you know? Last super interesting thing, before he left, he told me that if I need to get a hold of him to just text him because he had turned off all incoming calls. Huh???? He just said basically he was tired of everybody and didn’t want to have to talk to anybody. In my head, I’m thinking what’s the story with OW3 then? Is this move b/c of her or me or something completely different? So I don’t know what it means exactly but I just found it very interesting!

[awest1217]

I think you are handling things well. It is hard to detach without distancing yourself and keeping a good balance. Just keep seeing where things go. It sounds good that H said how good it is to be with you and how it is better to be around you.

The phone thing...could be anything maybe collectors calling, maybe OW3 is driving him crazy, who knows? Just keep living your life and if H asks to join like last night..let him.

[Lucky11too]

I feel in a little bit of a weird funk. H and I have texted on and off this weekend. I texted him on Friday (as a little cookie to keep him interested) to ask if he was feeling any better since he felt so off the day before, which unfortunately he was feeling about the same. Friday night, h asked about S and i asked him what his plans were for the weekend. He said on that night (friday) he was going to go home and sleep (which I'm skeptical about - I'm guessing he went out with his friends but anyways), and then asked if we could get together on Sunday. Then the ususal "how's s" text on Saturday night. Sunday comes, H ends up over sleeping again and asks if he should come over anyways to see just me (since S is about to go down for his nap). (Interesting. I guess he was just framing it that way b/c last time I turned him down). I said ok, but that he should come right now before S goes to sleep so he can see him too. The sum of the story is that H finally comes 2 hours later, S has already long since gone to down for his nap, and then H can only stay for 30mins b/c he has to run other errands before work.

The 30 minutes were interesting tho. Starters, H is all stressed about his current job b/c they keep making the stupidest decisions and then on top of that, the other manager is going on vacation for like 2 weeks, so H has to close every single night! Well, for us, I suppose it doesn't matter b/c we haven't been hanging out anyways, but now there is definitely no chance of that. H was also talking about his guy friends and how each of them have a specialty and that they all want to go into business together (like a catering business). We talked about his friends for a little bit. A persons friends make the person who they are so that's a little scary. These are all new post-separation friends, so I've only met each of them twice. They're not bad people exactly (in fact they seem nice enough), but they are definitely not what I need to help H get back on track. #1, I asked if any of them had girlfriends or wives. Nope! None. So a group of bachelor boys going out every night. Great! In a forward thinking sense, I was at least thinking duoble dating would be a nice way to infuse me back into his life, but that can't happen. #2, he was talking about a couple of their different things they have done. Going out to this bar or that bar, going to one of the guy's houses and getting drunk and having wrestling matches. Boys! I would say H does not have a drinking problem anymore because it no longer controls his life and he no longer feels the need to "self-medicate", but he is definitely still a social drinker and when that's all your social group does, it's still kind of a lot. I'm not against social drinking per say, but there just has to be more to life than that. I know I'm a girl and thinking talking with g/f's, going to a movie, going on a hike are just as fun, but really, there have to be some things guys can do that don't involve drinking.

So back to why I'm in a weird funk again...a short little time together revealed so much today. He definitely needs me in his life b/c I really am his best complement to keep him grounded (which I think he sees and why he comes to me b/c I'm the only one that understands the complications going on in his life), but I don't see him penciling us in to his future. He has these great ideas for his future (own several bars, get into catering business with friends, get a house in newport beach) which are all probably attainable for him, but there is yet to be any mention of me and S in his life. I think he has more of a "will see" attitude, but that doesn't work for me. We're hitting 2 YEARS here shortly and I'm getting to the end of my rope in limbo land. When I asked the question about the friends having g/fs, he was so absolute - definitely not! Any saying how he was the only one with a kid too. It just doesn't make a very promising situation to have anyone supporting an "us". I think too about if I even want him in my life. He definitely pulls me down more than he raises me up. It's hard b/c I want him, but I'm not really even sure why? Maybe it's just the loneliness for me and wanting to give S a family. Despite that, I know I would definitely give it a try with MC IF H was able to get to that point, but another part of me thinks that maybe I should just move on too (not this moment, but as I start to push things later this year). I keep getting more and more frustrated b/c I keep seeing other couples and despite normal R difficulties, they're sticking it out and showing love to each other. I just have so much love to give and i want it to be shown back too! For me, I feel like I need to over the next few months push for a resolution one way or another, but it's hard to know where to start. I know we as DBers are not supposed to bring up R talks, but at some point this all has to be addressed. I definitely want him to get this new place first so that can be one huge stress off his back, but somehow, then I need to get him to start focusing on us. hmmm...

[awest1217]

It seems more and more to me that you are always waiting for the next thing to happen (I did the same thing). You don't want to rock the boat until H gets to a counselor, until H gets his surgery, until H gets his own place. All legitimate given H's problems, but what about you and S. What are you going to do while you are waiting? I think you need to come to a resolution on what you want before talking to H. Maybe taking these two weeks of H being busy and really focus on you. If H calls or texts, talk about S, but don't talk about H, talk about you. Be selfish for once. Focus your attention so much on you and what you want or what is happening with you so you can figure out what you need and want and who you are without H.

IT seems more and more to me that H has made you into his friend, and nothing more or maybe friends with benefits for a while, but that is it. He doesn't talk to you as a wife or even a girlfriend. He doesn't want to lose his friend because you are his stability, but he has to find that on his own so he can be an equal partner in your R if you continue.

Sorry it is less hopeful than I usually like to be.

[Lucky11too]

I hear you - on both accounts. It's the truth and the truth is not always positive. You're right tho, it really is becoming just a "friendship" or friends with benefits. It's hard to admit b/c that's not what I want it to be, but in reality, there's not much going on showing a H/W or even b/f/g/f R right now. Not that it can't be again, but I have definitely distanced myself b/c I need to protect my heart. I gave him my heart fully earlier this summer and I got completely burned with OW3. Which is interesting as I write this I'm thinking, i'm kind of leaving our R dead in the water. I'm not ready to let go of it yet and D, but on the other hand, I don't feel i can give him my heart again right now either b/c he has done nothing to regain my trust again. So in that case, we are sort of just existing. Hmm, interesting. So now the weight is pretty much on H to get it up to any type of real R again. He does try to come over just to see ME, but on the otherhand, I'm still not the priority. He obviously still sees his friends more than he sees me.

On the second account, yes, I'm definitely falling prey to the "next thing" phenomenon. Although these are all valid things, the waiting for the next thing could continue forever! But this current one is a definite one to wait for. (yes, I know sounds contradictory). But HIS biggest excuse about not working things out with us was that he needed to get his own place first so he could make his own money. Ok, if it goes thru, problem solved. (well, I'm sure he'll find another excuse, but in my mind, problem solved). All the other ones were ME not wanting to rock the boat so that he would follow thru on getting help. Luckily I won't have to wait long tho. They should have a final answer in the next few weeks. The final piece is waiting for the ABC license (liquor license) to go thru. Then H's apartment lease is up at the end of October, so it will be interesting to see where his mind is at depending on how long he renews (month to month, 6 months, a year?) Not that I have to wait until then, but the point is, things are all just coming to head shortly. I'm pretty determined to have a resolution one way or another before this year is up.

I'm definitely going to try to take some time to figure out what I want for ME. I'm not going to be able to get away from H tho despite his busy schedule b/c we have S's b-day party on Sunday, S's first day of pre-school on Tuesday, plus S's actual b-day on Tuesday. So b/c of S, I'll actually be seeing him even more than normal next week!

[awest1217]

It sounds like a lot is going on so just enjoy it. Try not to worry about H at all, just enjoy S and the fact that he is turning 2.

[Lucky11too]

So just got back from lunch with H. On Sunday, b/c he had to run off so quickly, he said he wanted to do lunch with me (originally Monday, but then it got pushed to Tuesday). We had a great hour lunch talking. It's good b/c it feels like a lot of giving on both sides. He doesn't make it all about him and I don't make it all about me. He asked about me and work, so I was able to share about that, and he shared about some of the things going on in his life. In exciting news, they got approved to post the listing for the new place (I guess it's an old requirement that you have to post a notice for 30 days telling about the transfer of the liquor license, and if no complaints ["speak now or forever hold your peace" haha], then they get their liquor license and they get the place. H is careful not to get overly optimistic tho until it's truly final.) H is frustrated that he has to stay at the old place and put his 2 weeks notice in while his unexperienced uncles head into the new place, but it is what it is. Also hard for H is that he's taking a huge pay cut (almost half) to work at the new place. They don't get any money as owners until they can turn the place around and make a profit and then pay off any debts first. So it's definitely going to be even tighter for H for now, but at least he'll be so busy putting his time in at the new place, he won't have much time to spend money either. On the otherhand, in the future, if the place does well, they have the potential to make a lot of money. Interestingly, when we were talking about that, he said that that S and I at least would be able to afford to move back into our old house in a few years then. Huh? What does that mean? In my thinking, it we don't work out, I want to sell the place, since I can't continue to pay part of the monthly mortgage for a house I don't even live in. That might be a shocker to him when it becomes time to D, b/c we really haven't discussed the fate of the house yet.

Kind of funny, we had chinese food, so we got fortune cookies. His cookie said something about how he should listen to his friends as they would give him good advice to help the present situation. haha. funny. His response, "I don't have any friends". Oh please. Maybe that's true that he doesn't have any super close friends that he shares everything with (but does any guy??) but he definitely has his "buddies".

It's weird, I'm not really sure exactly how he sees me. I'm thinking now our R is definitely more close and intimate then just a friendship (I'm supposedly the only one he shares all his feelings with. I'm guessing that's true even if OW3 is in the picture still [I laid down the law about exactly what needed to happen with her but no way to check if he actually cut her out or not] but if so, I'm sure their R is probably more of a flirty R then a meanful one. Life is messy & I'm sure she wouldn't want to hear about his or vice versa. I know H has no patience for other people's drama). But on the otherhand, our R is definitely not a H/W R, but could it even be classified as b/f&g/f-ish? What makes a b/f&g/f R just that? He does make an effort to see me (not as often as I would want tho from a b/f but his work schedule limits that as well), he communicates often and asks daily how both S and I are doing, and he seems to truly care about what's happening with me and my life. And of course, we have the more intimate side of things too. And the thing is, this is all him. I have been anti-initiating for what, almost 2 months now? I'm responsive and loving, but besides that, there's not much going on from my end. I don't want to over-analyze it, but I am curiuos where H's brain is at regarding us tho. I guess it's hard not to be. But anyways, with the new place happening and with H being even busier, it's good that I'm used to and am OK with being without him. Between friends and S, I have more than enough to keep me busy!

[awest1217]

Hope you enjoy this fun filled weekend!

[Lucky11too]

Thanks! It's already been eventful weekend. Earlier this week, H had said that we should see if I can get off early one day last week and go celebrate getting the new place with sushi. I found out I would be off early anyways for Friday for the labor day holiday weekend, so I asked H if he wanted to meet up. Originally he said no b/c he had to work early-ish. Friday came and he said he would like to meet up, so he drove all the way down here just to have a 30 minute meal with me only to have to turn around and drive all the way back to work (with traffic and all!) I was floored that he would make that much effort! It was nice. We ended up meeting at a mexican food place instead. It was happy hour, so we grabbed a margarita and some appetizers and must caught up. Then he told me that we needed to get fingerprinted asap to finalize their license, so asked if it would be ok to come over after work (2am-ish) so we could go in the morning (the fingerprinting place is down by my house).

So, he came over after work and it actually went really really well. We had some great conversation. I was validating a lot of what he said, not as a technique, but b/c I actually agreed with him and he kept saying how I am the only one who understands. I didn't want to overdo that point, so I just kind of nodded in agreement. We also had a really interesting religion discussion. He didn't attack me at all for my religion, but was more of a discussion of how he just doesn't feel able to connect to God. We've learned from brain scans that there is a portion of your brain in religious people that is more active, and H has ZERO activity there (my take on it is that it's not that your brain makes you believe that there is a God but it allows you to be open to that connection, if that makes sense). So we had this discussion about why there are so many different religions, is religion just a feeling etc. No answers exactly, but it was the first time in a long time that I actually felt some morsal of hope again.

Today was a a different story. Everything that could go wrong did. H's dad couldn't find the fingerprint papers, then it turns out you have to make an appt to go, and H finds out that his sister and sister's family have been going thru, taking, and doing who know's what with all of his (our) stuff there. (when H officially moved out of our house last year, obviously he couldn't take all of it to his apartment, so it got stored in his sister's garage. I took everything I really wanted out first and put it in my own storage unit, so I'm not really hurt by all this, but there are a few "us" things that were there like camping gear, etc). Anyways, H went off the handle at his mom b/c she knew and didn't tell them. It was so ackward and I just wanted to get out of there as soon as possible. That put H completely off tho and he became a completely different person again from yesterday. It's great b/c I can see the hope but on the other hand, it's becoming so painfully obvious that he is no where near getting his own mind and emotions in check...and I can't have him losing it like that at me or S. While I'm in this decision time these next few months, I'm just going to keep encouraging him to get help!

In better news though, everything is all set for the S's b-day party tomorrow! We should have a great turnout and beautiful weather, so it is all exciting. =)