Prepare for a wonderful discovery

[sage]

Hi Rachael,

I know you're feeling in a very raw and rough spot right now...I've been there myself more than once...I hope you know that I can relate...

I don't know how well I'll do here responding to your post...FWIW...trust has been a huge issue for me in my m...in my life...and to be blunt...I brought my trust issues INTO my m...and it would be "easy" to say that h's a didn't help those any...but it some strange way perhaps it did (note that I'm not suggesting infidelity as a "cure all" for trust issues by any stretch of the imagination! I would have far preferred a different method of facing them but it is what it is.). I guess my point is that I entered the m. with plenty of my own baggage, as did h...I've been working my behind off on mine...I hope that he is on his...and for better or worse, the a has been the catalyst.

That was a powerful post that Acorn wrote you Sage. I'm not sure it's possible to trust as she says. She says she thought she was hiding her mistrust, but obviously she wasn't. I'm not sure it had any bearing on the outcome of her M. IMHO her husband probably would have done the same thing.

Well....I'd be curious to hear how Acorn would answer this but here's my two cents...I don't think that Acorn is necessarily suggesting that she could have changed her h's behavior by trusting...I don't think she's necessarily viewing it as black and white as "cause and effect" (I don't trust ergo h betrays my trust)...I think what she's saying is that not trusting can certainly GET in the WAY of happiness in one's R. and without a doubt can get in the WAY of one's OWN happiness.

I guess I'd put it this way...what is your current state of mind doing to change:

Your OWN individual feelings/sitch
Your h's individual feelings/sitch
Your M together

Are your current feelings of anxiety and mistrust making YOU feel better? Making your h feel better? Bridging a gap in your m?

Is there some tangible outcome that's happening as a result of your questioning?

What would be different if you thought and acted as though:

I do not know for certain what has happened with my h, what his current actions are. I will not make ASSumptions about his behavior or feelings. I will choose to focus on what I can control -- myself -- my feelings -- my actions.

How can you MAKE yourself trust? That's like trying to control your thinking. You just can't do it. Thoughts just come. How we react to them is up to us.

I totally agree that what you do with your thoughts is up to you (and me ...) but I actually don't agree with the idea that thoughts "just come" and that they are beyond your control. I truly believe that we get into learned patterns of thinking...aren't you able to control your thoughts in a NEGATIVE direction? Can't you completely overwhelm yourself with a conscious effort to think NEGATIVELY? I mean, really, really drive yourself into distraction by consciously thinking a stream of thoughts that are awful?

I can and sometimes I DO!

I think that many of the thoughts that pop into our heads are habit.

Do I think my H is being totally honest with me? No.
I have no proof of anything, but it does not make any sense that she would stop calling him all of a sudden one day. He was suppose to tell me if there was any contact. If he was honest and told me she called I'd know he was really serious about us and getting back together.

So...I can relate to this 100%. My h told me that after telling ow that it was over (with me standing in the room) on 11/1/02 that they have never been in contact again. EVER. No phone, no email, no IM.

I have BEEN where you are at right now, Rachael. I have actually said to myself "BullSH&%...and if you were REALLY serious about being committed to this m. you would COME CLEAN."

I know exactly how you feel.

Can you see the double edge sword here?

There is NO right answer to that query that you can hear from your h.

That I could hear from my h.

I have spent more than my share of time wandering around in the same pool of wondering that you are currently in right now...I expect I'll visit again at some point...but if you let that wondering control your life...control HOW you respond to your h...don't you think it will change the way you treat him? Don't you think that starts a cycle of mistrust/suspicion/hiding things?

I'm not saying you have to say to yourself "I believe 100% that h has not spoken to ow..."

I'm suggesting that you say to yourself "I cannot control this". Because you can't. You cannot control if h and ow still talk, if he lies to you, etc. Scary, heart-stopping stuff, isn't it?

I have serious doubts he can quit talking to her because of his past history. What I don't understand is WHY he keeps talking to her and does not want to be with her?? Why is that?

So...you went from "serious doubts" to the 100% ASSumption that he's still talking with her...

He would have divorced me long ago if he really wanted to BE with her. Why does he risk our R by lying about talking to her. I do trust that he is not sleeping with her.
The other, well, I just can't believe it right yet.

You're ASSuming that he's lying to you, Rachael. I don't know if he is or he isn't but if you're ASSuming it it isn't gonna matter to you at all if he is or he isn't because you'll act like he is...

Wev'e been round and round about this and if I find out he's lying to me again about it, I know that trust will never be restored-it will have been too much for too long.
I hope my fears are unfounded, but it does not make sense that she'd stop calling him. He flat out lied to me many times about it, so when he tells me he's had no contact with her it does little to comfort me. His actions are all I have to go by and those are sometimes good and sometimes not so good. Who knows??? Rachael

So...you say you're going round and round on this...that tells me for certain that you're in a cycle that needs to be broken.

It SOUNDS like there's at least two ways to break it...

1. H admits to you that he has been in contact with her and then somehow trust will be restored

2. You trust in the face of all the ambiguity and fears and scariness

I say "sounds" like because what happens if #1 occurs....h admits to you that he's lied. Does your trust magically reappear? I'd venture a guess to say "no". So you're still stuck with option #2 no matter what happens, right?

You say that when he tells you that he's not in contact with her it does little to comfort you...so that's a rock and a hard place, no?

You're not comforted if he says he's NOT in contact with her and I doubt you'll be comforted if he says that he IS.

Do you see, Rachael?

The comfort DOESN'T come from outside...it can't.

It has to come from within you.

and I think that's what Acorn meant.

I don't think there's a way to say:
I trust that I'll never be hurt or lied to again.

I think it's more about:
I trust that I'll be ok.

I'm not in a million years suggesting that one put oneself in a dangerous situation...but Rachael, isn't it time to take yourself off the merry-go-round?

Sage