Where does the WAW go

[didthehurt]

Doodi
two things stood out to me when you said loveless and hopelessness.
Doodi there is always hope even in the darkest of places. Hope is a good thing. Your H is showing emotion now that's a start that's hope little as it may be. Remember footprints in the sand. Loveless why does your marriage have to be lovelesss? It doesn't have to be. I believe you love him still. God
brought you all together. Doodi set some bounderies like if was having an affair then he has to cut all ties. In your case maybe a boundery would be talking about feelings and not just bottling them up. Doddi. I see hope your situation I see much more hope then I do for mine. Remember hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things.

[pinhead]

Doodi,

Thank you for the courage to step into what might have appeared as the lion's den. Your story is invaluable for everyone spouse who just can't figure out what their walkaway is thinking. Usually everyone is so wrapped up in their own feelings, that they paint their spouse as the bad person, who's "crazy," or "living in a fantasyland." You've put a human touch on this picture for all of us.

If I could offer some advice, from someone who's wife sounds like she's in your exact situation, be as honest as you can be. Sending any type of mixed message, no matter how kind your motive is painfully damaging. It's hard to say things to someone you still are about, knowing how it'll hurt them, but they need to hear the truth. Otherwise they'll grasp at any little nugget of hope, not only hurting themselves in the process, but hurting you as well.

Your H will try a million things to make you stay. It's amazing the contortions we all go through to avoid having our spouses leave, even when it's obvious to everyone that it's the best option at the time. All your H is feeling is the most abject panic. If you're consistent in what you say and do (hard I know when you're torn by a lot of emotions and loyalty), this panic will eventually subside to a level where he can cope with it.

Your children deserve a happy, healthy home; one that models a relationship they can look to when they get older. That doesn't mean you have to leave; on the contrary, children (depending on their age) need to learn that relationships are nothing like what is shown on Hanna Montana etc. They need to see parents argue/disagree, compromise, and make up. Children make this so much tougher, because the issues become very deepseated; guilt is an incredibly tough emotion to cope with.

Your husband can change. It'll be hard for him (and you) but change is always possible. My wife is astounded at the changes in me, physically, emotionally, spiritually. It is probably too late for our marriage, but you never know. Accept his changes for what they are; hopefully he'll make good choices, learn about himself, and end up a better person. This is his (and your) crucible.

In one way, I think you're lucky. You will always have an element of control that you lacked for 15 years; you can stay or go, come back or live a separate life. Freedom. It may seem scary to take those steps towards leaving, when there's so much pressure to stay, but often there's no other way to prevent "your brain from exploding with everything rolling around" in it.

I wish you the best of luck. Keep your expectations manageable, and your hope high. Eventually, distinguishing between the two will become second nature.

[steady]

There actually was a forum for WAW's looking for a place just for them, but a lot of the LBH's never got the point and kept posting about "their WAW"...

I know the forum is still there. And I think a simple request for LBS's to not post should be respected. It's a shame a WAS (or whatever you want to call them) wouldn't have a safe place to get help without interference from people who have no experience in being one themselves.

I for one am staying off this thread. (except for this post) I wish you luck and hope you find your peace. You're in great hands with Greek and Sandi, hopefully the LBS's will keep away unless asked for any input.

[Doodi]

Ok so I'm going to try to catch up w/everyone. This is gonna be long but since I appreciate each and everyone for reaching out to me, I want to addr it all.

@John28
Thanks for being the voice of the other side. I need all the help there I can get. I do understand that he is in pain and I apologize to him often and repeatedly for doing this to him. I wish I could be happy without causing him pain but right now it's not working out that way. I try to understand and I accept the things he throws at me because I am hurting him and he's entitled to get it out. So far I've been able to handle it, it's hard as hell but I'm doing it and I'm going to keep trying.

As for fear being powerful, I KNOW. It's one my primary emotions right now. I'm trying to squash it to find any other feelings but it's so hard. But I've been living with fear for so long I can't ignore it. So that last part that you said about fear is exactly how I'm feeling. I know you wrote it to tell me how he is feeling but it's what I feel so how do I fix this if both of us are in pure survival mode?

@ AJM
I'm not repulsed by his show of emotions, exactly. I find myself thinking it's just a portion of the pain I've been/through (and yes I'm ducking the 2x4's that are about to be slung my way...but I'm here to be honest). That's part of my confusion, how can I feel contempt for someone I am supposed to love.

I do see the cycle but how do you break it? How do I find the strength/courage to to step back into a burning house.

The privacy thing is not because he thought it was an EA/PA but because he thought it would show him deeper into my head. I've tried to explain that some of the things he found was me purging my brain and trying to figure stuff out. I hadn't shared it with him because I didn't want to hurt him with some of my thoughts until I was sure my reasons/feelings were true. I didn't want to say things emotionally that I would regret. Unfortunately, because of the snooping he was hurt more and choices have been rushed.

@ Greek
I did try to do something small yesterday. I can't even do small things without feeling anxious. The thoughts go something like this--action leads to him wanting more which leads to rejection which leads to pain and finally anger. This is why I tend to do nothing. I just sit and try to make it through the day.

I've been trying to find me. Of course, the little growth I have is under immediate attack and the guilt starts.

@ Sandi
You're right about the forum. But from the minute I dropped the 'bomb' I knew I was going to be a target from almost every direction. I spend alot of time swallowing my pride and feelings because I know alot of things are said in anger and not really at me. It's not to say it doesn't hurt but I expected it. And I've been through so much worse in my life. This feels like the last minefield of my life before happiness so I'm going at it.

The fear is all emotional. He is not physical but all about intimidation. The yelling, belittling and guilt. He won't stop until the tears are going then he wants to act like the sweet prince here to make it all better. Hot 'n Cold has nothing on him and it happens so fast, we all are blindsided. He doesn't get to the kids too often because I'm on constant alert. I've started noticing the anxiety in my kids too and that's when things really started going in my head. I won't let things happen to my kids.

The EA warning is appreciated. I admit that when a guy shows me kindness it does feel so nice but I run. I run so fast its funny. I won't be that girl. I want to be able to say I tried everything and that I did it all the right way. If I end up leaving, it will only be because I just couldn't make this work. And I want to be able to say I did everything I could...no stone left unturned.

I've always been a person that looks for advice because I have never trusted myself. Yes, low self esteem is an understatement. I tend to ask for advice everywhere and then evaluate it all, running things through every which way until I feel like I'm making an educated choice. Being spontaneous isn't something someone will EVER say about me.

@ Pinhead

Thank you so much for your kindness. I needed the validation, not to base my choice on just to let me know I'm not crazy. That other's do go through this. Everyone keeps looking at me like I'm a monster and I know someone out there had to understand. It makes it all the more meaningful to me to know that you are on the other side and can see that I'm not just a selfish B, who is thinking only of herself.

I know it was a long post but I got something from each and everyone of you. It helps more than you know. I'll check back soon and often.

Doodi

[FindingMyVoice]

Hi Doodi, I just wanted to stop by and tell you my heart goes out to you, and to offer you my support. I too came here confused and wondering if I should leave my H and I also had very low self esteem, so I greatly admire your courage to reach out and ask for help. Just wondering - have you read Nathaniel Branden's 'Six Pillars of Self-Esteem'? It helped me greatly. I'm hesitant to offer other advice though, as I'm still working on some things myself, and am fearful of leading you in the wrong direction. But I cannot say enough good things about Greek and Sandi, though. As I can tell you're already finding, they are kind and compassionate, and great sources of strength and wisdom. Again, my heart goes out to you; take care. FMV.

[Greek]

@ Greek
I did try to do something small yesterday. I can't even do small things without feeling anxious. The thoughts go something like this--action leads to him wanting more which leads to rejection which leads to pain and finally anger.

Personal question - do you mean "more" as in sex? Is there a sex drive difference in the two of you?

I've been trying to find me. Of course, the little growth I have is under immediate attack and the guilt starts.

Your growth probably threatens the hold he needs to have over you. Guilt? Whose guilty - you? My sister - God gave YOU a life, not him a WIFE! You are YOU first and there is no reason for you to feel guilty for fulfilling your potential as a human being.

been through so much worse in my life. This feels like the last minefield of my life before happiness so I'm going at it.

Draw on the strength of your experience.

The fear is all emotional. He is not physical but all about intimidation. The yelling, belittling and guilt. He won't stop until the tears are going then he wants to act like the sweet prince here to make it all better.

That is just unacceptable. And YOU feel guilty for it. How can we break this most unhealthy cycle? You cannot control what he will do, but what about you? Do you push back on this at all?

My H recommends a website to you called Compassion Power. I haven't been there but he knows it and thinks it will help you with your H, for it deals with anger, emotional abuse. And there is a book I read called The Verbally Abusive Man that really helped me back in the day.

What are you going to do for yourself today, Doodi?
Greek

[Doodi]

@ FMV
Thanks for your support. I haven't read that book but I'll have to look into it. I hope you stop by often, even if you don't feel like you should give advice, because it's always good to feel like you're not the only one going through things.

@ Greek

Personal question? Like we don't put it all out there already. But to answer you, yes we are on 2 different planets when it comes to sex. So yes the 'more' normally is leading up to sex...not always but normally.

I get that my growth is threatening to everyone right now. I'm just trying not to fall victim to my past behaviors. I always stop what I'm into to keep the peace. I also worry about my lil people when I'm gone. I know he won't get physical but if I can barely handle his tirades how can I let him turn on the kids. So I always end up sacrificing me.

As for standing up for myself. I have been doing that a lot more lately. I've always been a fighter but would eventually back down because I knew I had nowhere to go and that he was mostly good for the kids. But as time has gone on, I've grown to feel most of the time isn't good enough. I get that we all make mistakes as long as we own up to them and learn from them. And we have to make sure the good times outweigh the bad and for me and mine they normally don't. The bad moments just have us all cringing and on edge so much it's hard to enjoy ourselves.

It doesn't help that I think my kids are picking up on my vibe and no matter what I can't hide that, they just read it.

I did find that site recently had have been looking around. Haven't really find my way yet but I'm always open to new things.

As for my me time...this is it. I'm setting myself up for a huge argument if/when he finds out about this. To me, it's venting and guidance...2 very important things I need right now. To him, well I don't know (no mind-reading right). I know that he complains about me sharing my feelings with others and not him. I say sometimes we are just to close and need an outsider. So for me, I came here.

Thanks everyone for you kindness and compassion. It means alot

Doodi

[Greek]

Personal question? Like we don't put it all out there already. But to answer you, yes we are on 2 different planets when it comes to sex. So yes the 'more' normally is leading up to sex...not always but normally.

Didn't want to assume you would discuss this. My H and I went through years like that, esp. after our children were born. I was just TIRED! We struggled. Hormones and general health can be contributors to this, as well.

I get that my growth is threatening to everyone right now. I'm just trying not to fall victim to my past behaviors. I always stop what I'm into to keep the peace.

Co-dependent much? Have you read up on co-dependency? If not, do so, friend.

So I always end up sacrificing me.

Doodi ~ how can I help you STOP doing this? It's wrong. And sister, your children are watching this. What would you tell your daughter or son if they were in your shoes? Self-sacrificing is wrong and not an answer. Look at the misery around you for it.

It doesn't help that I think my kids are picking up on my vibe and no matter what I can't hide that, they just read it.

100% guarantee this.

As for my me time...this is it. I'm setting myself up for a huge argument if/when he finds out about this. To me, it's venting and guidance...2 very important things I need right now.

Delete your history after you visit this site.

Thanks everyone for you kindness and compassion. It means alot.

I've been where you are in many ways. Helping means a lot to me

Greek

[AJM]

Doodi, I was struck by the parts you mention your husband's actions and how you step in and sacrifice yourself. Have you ever considered that you are two different people and that you may be trying to control things a bit too much? My thought is that if you keep getting between your kids and your husband's relationship because you want a particular outcome, is that not controlling? How is he going to change other than to become frustrated and you leaving? Is that not part of the cycle of what is going on?
Did your husband grow up wanting to be a tyrannical monster to the kids? When he was five did he get up in the middle of the night dreaming he would one day be tyrranical to his family? Or is it possible that like a little kid he is not getting something he needs and then gets short circuited during his interactions with the kids? I'm not wording it well, but I'm trying to say that you should really examine if he is tyrannical or different with the kids than you would be. Different is common and why there are two parents. Tyrannical might mean something else.

It also stands out to me that your husband tries to see in your head to try and figure out what he doesn't understand. He would do that because he cares. That has likely been going on for quite a while if I had to guess. Might be tiring to you, no?

Doodi, I think you're asking the right questions. I ask the questions to help you and no other reason. But it seems to me you are seeing things and are very hurt. I think we all jump on the bandwagon of thinking he is a monster or whatever and I just ask to help see if that is the case of if you see things in that way for other reasons. I sense a lot of control on your parts and I sense him rebelling against that control. I see a cycle of repeated behaviors as well in your posts. And I sense an urgent sense of frustration on your part (your husband may be frustrated as well.)

The others that post here have way more experience being in your shoes. I'm just posting based on what I see and asking the questions, so please let me know if that is not helpful. Painful is ok, but let me know if not helpful

[AJM]

Hey Doodi, one more thing. I posted this last and had an additional thought: my wife once accused me of the same behavior. Know what? To some degree that was true. Know what the root of it was (found out in counseling)? Her short circuiting the relationship I had with the kids and trying to control me. Know what? I get along great with my kids since she left. My situation is different in that wasn't why she left (I believe - don't really know for sure why she left and likely never will.) But that was a side benefit of her leaving - my relationship with the kids has been great since she left.

Sadly, they are horribly devastated by the departure. But I don't think that's what is in store for you. I don't sense you would leave your kids with him if you believed that's what the problem is. You don't seem that kind of mother from your postings and you don't seem like you want to leave. Just confused and trying to figure things out. I hope you can figure out what you need to do to become the best person you can be and then the best mom and wife if that's how it turns out you want your life to be.

Good luck Doodi. I'll be quiet for a while (which is very uncharateristic of me by the way...