I need to catch up on my sitch here mostly with interactions with W which have been few but profound.
This is from 7/23 or there abouts:
She called and sounded upset so I asked what was wrong. She said she had been at the chapel. I said is everything ok. She said I am just not doing well I can’t get out of this hole. I can’t get a job because they run background checks and see my arrest for battery and my DUI. I just can’t believe the bad choices I made I don’t even know that person.
I am not the person you were married to. I say you know what speaking just for me I am not proud of the man I was during that time either. Neither of us brought the best of ourselves to our marriage. She said I can’t go back to that. I said neither do I want to. She said you are struggling too. I said I am but I am going to make it out this whether we are together or not I know that.
She tells me more about how she is just flat broke and can’t even buy groceries. I say if you want help you have to ask me. I can’t assume what you need and do it for you. That doesn’t work we both know that. She said you can see I only have $10 in my account and I helped you when you needed it a long time ago. I said I don’t look at your bank account or FB or anything and there is a very good reason for that. If I put $200 in your account will that help you. Yes. I will do it today.
W:I just don’t know what I’m going to do I have to start over. M I understand its hard. W And you aren’t secure yet either even if we were together.
I said my financial status doesn’t have anything to do with our relationship. They are separate in my mind to any decision about us. Pause.
M What can I do to help? Would it help if we talked? W I don’t know. M I can come over and bring the dog so you can visit with him maybe that will cheer you up. I can only do that on the weekends so let me know. W I would like to see him let me think about it. M Ok you think about it. If it gets bad go to the chapel and sit there. That’s what I do. So you call me whenever you need to I am still here and I’m not going anywhere. W OK.
I put the money in and she called to thank me and said she may move home with her folks. I said whatever you think is best. I understand it’s hard. Call me if you need anything.
So that was over a month ago....
Then
My goal is to some day be the person my dog thinks I am
if you truly love someone you respect those choices.
No, you respect the person and have some compassion for human frailty if their choices are bad.
How can you respect somebody's choice to smoke crack? Their choice to kill another person? You can't.
You can respect them as a human being though. You can have some compassion and understand that we all make bad choices.
In the case of a spouse choosing to leave the M, you don't have to respect that choice, but you should not nurse resentment and hurt. They just chose to leave. They do not share your values. It doesn't mean you don't have compassion for them, but you do not have to respect their values or choices. You do not have to harbor anger, pain and resentment. What kind of value system do you have if you do? If you do harbor these things, should anybody else respect your values? Should they respect your choice to stay stuck in the past harboring past dissappointment and hurt like some dysfunctional child? No, they shouldn't.
Try to see it from an outsider's perspective. Try to see that if you value love, commitment, forgiveness and compassion, that you cannot hold onto those past hurts. You can learn from them, but if your value system is really positively focused, then you do not obsess on them.
M-47,W-40,No kids D-filed 5/27/2010 Piecing - 10/21/2010 -=Soon to be banned=-
W called I ask how she is she launches into how she is just trying to hang on.
TG-I understand it’s hard. If you need anything just ask (my standard validating answer)
W-I don’t want to come beg you. You know I contributed money to your efforts in the past. I am generous and I get screwed! ExH screwed me and I am just trying to survive on nothing. I paid for the wedding. Etc.
TG-I don’t want to talk about the money right now. That is like holding our M hostage. I admit you paid for things and so did I and this is a long discussion that I am not having unless we are splitting up.
W-I don’t have any money and I have been generous with you and I shouldn’t have to ask you for $.
TG- You know why you are where you are. They were not my choices they were yours.
W-You pushed me away. You broke my spirit. You wouldn’t support me. You ran away. I spent Christmas alone with the cat at the neighbors!
TG-Look there are things I want to change about myself and there things I am not proud of either. I am not going to discuss all this with you unless we have someone helping us talk about these things. And that means that you have committed to this M.
W- I can’t commit I don’t know if I want this after what has happened. I am so angry.
TG-I am still committed to our M and have been. I don’t think we should talk about this while you have anger towards me. I am past that with you. You need to start dealing with your anger towards me.
A few more pleasantries exchanged and that was it.
Text from her after this: I apologize for sounding bitter I don’t want to be angry hateful or anything. We both have been thru a lot. Please have a nice evening. I did not mean to put u in a bad place.
I respond: regardless of what WE decide let’s do it together.
She: I agree fighting and blaming is not going to help us get a real solution.
Me Ok ball is and has been in your court.
Get a message from her a few days later asking about the taxes.
I send text: I extended our taxes. I believe they are due Oct 15. I will be filing separately
W: Why separately are you angry with me? Why are you mad at me today?
TG: Not angry just realized maybe your right about us. I guess it isn’t going to work. I am sad. I wish you felt a little hope but I haven’t heard any from you since I promised to stand for our M. Just think maybe I need to be alone for a while. I am sorry for whatever pain you still feel because of me.
W: I am still confused and realized that if we got back together right now I would still be that girl clinging on to you to save my life. I don’t want that YOU don’t want that! I care too much for you to let that happen again. I am dealing with my demons. I am dealing with them sober so that there is nothing that I miss. I have pain that does not mean that I don’t care.
TG: What can’t you just say that. You give me no hope. What can we do?
TG: I don’t want to promise you I will be different and then not be able to follow thru. I don’t know I need to figure out how to survive. I am not trying to hurt you. This is not to get u back for the pain. I really don’t know what to do. Most of all I just don’t want you to feel bad. I don’t want to be angry.
TG: I don’t need that. I know you have to figure this out. On your own. I can’t save you. And I also didn’t break you. I never wanted to hurt you. The only thing I want to show you right now is I am here for better or worse. That is what I have been trying to show you but you showed me little hope on Saturday and it was the first time I felt your anger could never go away. I was sad for that.
W: I am upset at a lot of things. Things I have done. Angry with myself. I am sorry that I upset you. That is something I will never do intentionally. I am not trying to be a bad person with evil in my heart. I am trying to heal.
TG: I am not hurting from waiting so don’t feel guilt from that. What can I do that I haven’t done?? I am trying to give you time and space. I am not comfortable engaging in anything beyond what we have today until there is no one else in your life. That is the one boundary I have for this. Do you understand that?
W: Yes
End of convo.
In a perfect world I could have had more time to respond and maybe present things differently.
I have never heard her speak like this. It is funny that when I started to agree with her about our M she started defending why I shouldn’t quit?
It is clear to me OM is still in picture.
So now the boundary I have been wanting to communicate has been said. Finally.
I spoke to her about taxes/finances almost a week and half ago.
It will be 2 weeks on Tues.
She never has let more than 2 weeks go by without some communication.
I don't contact her. It has been this way pretty much for the past several months.
So that brings me up to date.
My goal is to some day be the person my dog thinks I am
First of all I respect that you are here and that you are trying to heal yourself from your own tragedy.
I posted to you in the middle of your own back in May or April.
It has become very clear to me that we do not share the same view on this process based on your posts to others and my repsonses to you there. Also based on your own choices.
What I am about to say may sting a bit but it is only my opinion and based in my own experience.
I believe that this is a process and that there is a great deal to be learned through it.
I believe in giving back what you recieve on the boards through helping others and posting your own experiences here as well.
For guidance, for discussion and for support and feedback.
I was doing that when I began to post to you way back when.
I believe it is helpful for others to see where you are today and where you have come from.
You can see my journey and my heart spilled out on these pages.
If you want to know my response to your post.
Read my whole thread. Back to when I first posted 2/27.
You will see all the bloody details of my journey.
You will also see a transformation.
You will see a man that started with pain.
And now through that pain and the decision to stand for my M I have come to a different understanding of Love, Myself, My W and my M.
At the beginning of this thread I describe that journey for me.
I believe there is a temptation in this to take exits along the way. We start this process with trying to get our spouse back because it will validate us. If that doesn't work we are tempted to walk away. They don't want us so f@ck 'em.
That IMO denies you of an incredible opportunity for growth and understanding and cuts short the process of true healing and acceptance.
How do I know?
Because I took that first exit in my first M and was tempted to do it again.
How does everyone here know that?
Because I have posted that here and shared it.
Time I am not trying to put tacks in your saddle here buddy and I am saying it here because you chose to post on my thread.
Where are your threads that I posted on? If I recall you DB'd for a month or so and your W left and it was over. I am not judging your choice. It is yours to make.
The easy road is to run away from something that causes you pain. I have done that too.
I agree with some of what you say but sorry I don't with most of it because my experience has taught me a different perspective.
Maybe that's because of the time I have committed to this and the experiences I have had. It has made all the difference.
I believe some of this tough stuff is learned from having the courage to stand up for what you believe, endure the pain, stop blaming other people for your own failures, throw away a certain sense of entitlement we all bring to our M and relationships, to heal and accept.
Time. Time does heal. And it takes time, perseverence, and courage.
So does unconditional love heal.
It has the power to heal you and your spouse regardless of the outcome.
You don't get there until you understand and experience what it is not. You don't get there by running away.
The only way though this is through it.
My goal is to some day be the person my dog thinks I am
I see that you have stood for your M for a very long time. One question though: what do you really want now? What do you deserve?
Let me throw out a hypothetical here: what if your wife is just one of those women who cannot stand to be alone?
I don't see her taking ownership for her choices in your posts. For example, the DUI and such... "I just can’t believe the bad choices I made I don’t even know that person".
That person is her. She is the only one that really, really knows that person. This alienation, this detached view of herself is a mechanism not to accept responsibility.
It differs from your statement, "I say you know what speaking just for me I am not proud of the man I was" in that by pointing out that you are not proud, you are at least accepting responsibility;however, you are keen to point out you have changed. You don't need to say this. We all change, and we have all done things we are not proud of doing.
You see what I am seeing here?
Her not accepting responsibilty. You accepting responsibility but keen to point out your changes.
Anyway, that's just my $.02.
Last edited by TimeHeals; 08/28/1002:14 PM.
M-47,W-40,No kids D-filed 5/27/2010 Piecing - 10/21/2010 -=Soon to be banned=-
If I may...You have never posted on my thread and I am not familiar with your sitch. What I can say is that I agree with Grit.
Look dude, if you decided to D and are happier well then hey I am happy for ya.
The process that Grit posts about is really as he said, about finding a place in oneself where WE choose to walk away/stop standing..whatever you want to call it, from a place of peace. From a TRUE place of understanding.
Anger, frustration, angst, fear, panic, depression, hopelessness, etc...all of these emotion are faced by the LBS and actually I believe the spouses. Most people (not just MLCers) IMO, do not want to face these feelings so they run.. they run from the M - BUT most importantly they run from themselves. The run from really finding who they are and what they are made of.
I think Grit's position or stance if you will, is to finally stop running. Finally face HIS issues, finally face HIS fears. In short, he is taking responsibility for his role in this and not just casually saying "well I made some mistakes,I better forgive myself and really just move on". No ...he is owning his issues, he is trying to be the best person that he can be.
That person is his wife's husband (at least right now)...but more importantly, that person is someone with a true heart, someone who has finally understood that none of us can control another person, has finally understood that every person is responsible for there choices, finally understood that none of what someone does to YOU should change who YOU are or who you want to be. That person that I call a friend. Maybe that is what he wants right now! I will let him answer that.
The 2nd marriage divorce rate is so high because most people will never identify the root cause of the issues they brought in the first M.. they casually chalk it up as a mistake or blame the other person. So we have choice we can go the route of saying...maybe this is who they really are or...as you pointed out everyone changes. Funny...I thought of that line....everyone changes...
Think about that for a second...if they can change and become nasty, two timing sons of bi*ches, could they not also change and become kind loving partners again? I guess they could...
Knowing that someone (and by your own admission) everyone changes...well then ins't that a reason to give them time to change? It is a personal choice..but while they are changing, we the LBS have a opportunity to change ourself. That my friend is a gift.
God Bless, Eric
"The difficulties of Life are intended to make us BETTER,not bitter". "Fear is a prison, where you are the jailer. FREE YOURSELF!" "Life is usually all about how you handle Plan B." - Jack3Beans
The process that Grit posts about is really as he said, about finding a place in oneself where WE choose to walk away/stop standing..whatever you want to call it, from a place of peace. From a TRUE place of understanding.
Eric,
Seriously?
Is this really what you think you have been doing?
For me, (yes, everyone knows, I have stopped standing) THAT, what you wrote, was NOT why I was here. It is NOT why I was standing.
I never did this to STOP standing. I did this to be healthy enough to live a healthy happy life. Period.
I fully believe in standing. That is why I continued to post. I also believe that everyone has to make their OWN decision about when enough is enough.
Good luck if that is really why you think you are here.
Time,
How can you respect a person but not their actions?
Maybe it is better termed "respect a persons right to make their own choices", which I have not really seen you practicing as you post across some of these threads.
As far as Grit standing for a long time, look around the MLC board at people's register dates, he has not stood as long as many here.
Grit,
You are reading into your W's words your own meaning. Not terribly, but a different interperation than I got.
Watch your expectations.
"Acceptance doesn't mean resignation. It means understanding that something is what it is and there's got to be a way through it."--Michael J. Fox
