Looking for help with WAW

[gr8 day 2B alive]

Maybe I don't have a clue or maybe it just doesn't matter to my W what I do.

This is not your first day. YOu know you have to do all these changes for you, not to get the attention of your W.

I didn't say anything about her being with OM. It's none of my business. She is a big girl and she makes her own decisions.
Yeah it hurt at first, but I believe I have fully detached from her.

I'm still confused why most people here are told to expose the A but I'm being advised to ignore it? Still trying to make sense of that. Public dating website or not, shouldn't the same rules still apply? She's basically getting away with it and no one is telling her it's wrong. Feel like my W isn't dating to heal herself. Think she's doing it looking for some magic fantasy.

It's like City girl said, she has been separated for a year now. In her mind your M is over.
In Bold- This is still a lot of mind reading here.

YOU need to go out and talk to OW to heal(Not necessarily date). In the process you will learn more about communicating better with them.
Remember your W is so far ahead of you on the curve.


Detach, detach, detach........................
you WILL feel so much better.

[mza8]

Your W isn't having an affair so I am not sure what you think there is to expose.

See, this is what I'm having trouble understanding. She may not be in an affair just yet but clearly she's on the path to an affair. So what's the difference? I don't understand why I should be passive and sit by until the affair happens. Why wouldn't I try to be proactive and expose the possibility of an affair? I'm not trying to be argumentative, just trying to make sense of it.

Just to be clear, W and I are not legally separated. We have no separation agreement. We are still legally married. It would be one thing for her to date if we were legally separated but we're not.

Thank you for being direct with your questions. To answer your first question, I didn't take any strong stances before because I didn't want to rock the boat. I could give some more colorful answer but that's the bare bones answer. Right or wrong, I was afraid a strong stance would make matters worse. Her dating profile struck a nerve with me. It got me to wake-up and see reality. Reality of the situation. It scared me...a lot. Scared me that she won't ever change her mind and I struggle to live with that decision.

When you break it down and strip away all of the reasons I try to justify doing strong consequences now, it really comes down to me being angry and trying to do something to get my pound of flesh. There, I said it. That's about as honest as I can get...no BS. I DON'T want to be that way. Maybe I just needed a couple days to vent.

To answer your other question, what has changed? Well, I guess nothing really. You're right, she still doesn't want to talk or reconcile. I guess for me what has changed is that I feel like I'm simply being thrown out like a piece of garbage. That she can't even have the deceny to talk to me once to let me know what happened. Let me know why/how her feelings changed. It crushes me to know that after all that time together she doesn't even think enough of me to talk to me about it. Difficult for me to understand how she could do this...not even tell me why? I still don't know why? That's not right. That's cruel. Of course I know the financial mess was a big factor. Was it or should it be big enough of a problem to end this M? My answer is no. People that know my sitch say no too. The only one that controls the answer right now is my W and her answer is obviously yes, it is enough to end the M. That's what I will have to live with unless she has the courage to tell me any other reasons that I'm unaware of.

CG, I hope this helps you understand where I'm coming from. Ask me any question you want, I'll give you a honest answer. Thanks CG.

[CityGirl]

Your W DID try and get a separation (divorce?) agreement in place when she sent you the house paperwork but you told her you would not sign it or look at until the house sold. She made it perfectly clear she did not want to continue the marriage in a legal sense but you refused to get the agreement in place!

So, you basically told her you would not give her what SHE wanted until things went the way YOU wanted. I understand you were trying to buy more time but it was all about control. Had she gone to an attny and filed the agreement you would have NO CHOICE but to respond. Instead she at least tried to be a bit more gentle about it. And I am going to guess she has seen this pattern in you for a LONG time and the financial disaster from your business was her breaking point. Honestly, WE all see that pattern and I do think in a gentle way it has been pointed out to you many times.

It is VERY cruel for one spouse to just dump the other spouse. I don't think anybody can or will debate that point.

Her leaving was NOT all about the financial mess. It was patterns of behavior on BOTH your parts. She could have gotten help or used resources to try and change that but she chose not to.

Your W has been behaving badly for a long time yet you didn't feel the need to expose that - now though that another man *might* take her to dinner you are up in arms. Her being a childlike adult that can't deal with anything is far deeper a problem then dinner with a man.

You were afraid to rock the boat. I get that. I did the SAME thing for a long time and it resulted in me getting so emotionally steam rolled I wasn't sure I would EVER recover. You had many avenues to take but you let fear stop you. So what can you do different now?

[gr8 day 2B alive]

mza,
I think your splitting hairs in the terminology of an affair.
Yes, you are still legally M.
I like to believe that a M is a union between two people. You haven't been a union for a year now. your old M is over- wether in can be reignited, only time will tell.

Just to be clear, W and I are not legally separated. We have no separation agreement. We are still legally married. It would be one thing for her to date if we were legally separated but we're not.

There may be a time where if your both not living in the same residence after a certain time you are considered separated.

There, I said it. That's about as honest as I can get...no BS. I DON'T want to be that way. Maybe I just needed a couple days to vent.

This is highly recommended!!!

To answer your other question, what has changed? Well, I guess nothing really. You're right, she still doesn't want to talk or reconcile. I guess for me what has changed is that I feel like I'm simply being thrown out like a piece of garbage. That she can't even have the deceny to talk to me once to let me know what happened. Let me know why/how her feelings changed. It crushes me to know that after all that time together she doesn't even think enough of me to talk to me about it. Difficult for me to understand how she could do this...not even tell me why? I still don't know why? That's not right. That's cruel.

Honestly mza8, say she did come to you and said-

mza8, I have joined a dating website and wanted to let you know I will be going out with other guys and will be enjoying my life."

HOw would you have responded??

maybe SHE already knows that anwser.

I know it's hard but you will get through this.
Tough situations go away, tough people don't!

[Dudess]

She may not be in an affair just yet but clearly she's on the path to an affair. So what's the difference?

To me, the word 'affair' denotes a secret, hidden, romantic/sexual involvement with someone other than a partner you are still in relationship with.


W and I are not legally separated. We have no separation agreement. We are still legally married. It would be one thing for her to date if we were legally separated but we're not.

I suspect that even if you were legally separated, you would be upset because you are still legally married.

At some point, the legal stuff is just that - legal stuff. IMO, the legal status is not the point, it's the relationship status. If you were engaged to be married, so NOT legally married, and you discovered your fiance' had a profile on a dating site, . . . now that's a problem and speaks volumes about their character.


When you break it down and strip away all of the reasons I try to justify doing strong consequences now, it really comes down to me being angry and trying to do something to get my pound of flesh. There, I said it. That's about as honest as I can get...no BS. I DON'T want to be that way. Maybe I just needed a couple days to vent.

I'm glad you realize that. Vent away.


I feel like I'm simply being thrown out like a piece of garbage.

I'm really sorry. It hurts, and there's no way around it.

This is yet another good reason to get out there and spend some time with the opposite sex, so you can see that other women find you attractive. Time to get your mojo back.

[Coach]

Time to get your mojo back.

"MOJO: How to Get It, How to Keep It, and How to Get It Back When You Lose It!" by Marshall Goldsmith and Mark Reiter, February 2010, Hyperion; ISBN: 1401323278

Let's change the mood from glad to sadness

Mr. Mojo Risin', Mr. Mojo Risin'
Mr. Mojo Risin', Mr. Mojo Risin'
Got to keep on risin'
Mr. Mojo Risin', Mr. Mojo Risin'
Mojo Risin', gotta Mojo Risin'
Mr. Mojo Risin', gotta keep on risin'
Risin', risin'
Gone risin', risin'
I'm gone risin', risin'
I gotta risin', risin'
Well, risin', risin'
I gotta, wooo, yeah, risin'
Woah, ohh yeah

[mza8]

About the house agreement. The original agreement she sent me wasn't an actual separation agreement. It simply had language included that discussed a few basic things about the marriage...dates, etc. I told her to remove those items as they were not relevant to the purpose of the agreement. She agreed and removed them. She wanted a separation agreement at the beginnning of the separation. My DB coach advised me to stall on this as did several lawyers I spoke with.

I wasn't trying to control her at all. I did what I said I would do and that was to sign an agreement that only pertained to the selling of the house. That's what she wanted and that's what I stuck to, nothing more, nothing less. She cannot file anything until this coming October.

I'm not arguing that this is probably the pattern she has seen in me for a while. That's fine, I acknowledge that. To be honest I didn't know any better back then. I've said it before here that I wasn't as mature about relatioinships as i could have been. Sure I would have handled things differently in the past...we all would. I have no problem with anyone pointing out my flaws. I can't grow and improve if I don't know these things.

Yes, I agree that the financial mess was her breaking point. I know they were other things. I have figured some of them out on my own and have told my W these things. I think my W was and still is very immature. I believe her immaturity is the a big reason she did not seek help or try to change things at that time. Again, she buries her head in the sand.

You make a good point about the real issues in this M and where we are today. Yes, dating is one issue but there are far more serious issues. Ok, I can accept this. I am willing to listen to her issues. I am willing to work on them. The mature way to go about this is to discuss our needs together and see if we can meet them. If not then it won't work. If we think we can meet each other's needs than we should try. Whether or not we would ever get back together or not I still believe the healthy/mature way is to talk about the issues that brought us to this point. Again, that's what I think. I know she feels differently.

As far as what road to take now without fear. Well, I guess that's what I need to think about and decide. I'm not sure. What can I do different? For starters getting her involved with the business matters. Email her by tomorrow with what needs to be done. Tell her what I'm going to do and do it. Not allow fear to control my actions. Let me think some more on the rest.

[mza8]

Could be. Maybe it's just semantics. However she can't have it both ways. It's unfair for her to think she can date and continue to avoid her responsibility that still remains. I too, would love to have the laat piece of this financial mess behind me. Someone has to take care of it. Me again.

Good question Gr8. I would have not been happy if she told me about the dating website. I would have been upset for a while. However, I would have respected her for being honest about it and not sneaking around behind my back like is her pattern of late.

Problem is that I think she thinks she knows the answers of how I will react. She might just be in for a surprise if she tested me.

[TimeHeals]

Yes, I agree that the financial mess was her breaking point. I know they were other things.

All fine and good. You have room to improve, and the next time you are in a relationship that is a good one, you won't make those same mistakes.

Problem: you aren't in one now, and you have to accept that.

I can't see the future and whether or not something will happen that will make your wife change her mind, or if you will want her back if she does, but...

I can see what you will not let yourself see: this marriage is currently dead. You have to accept that and stop trying to force her to see what you see, feel what you feel, and so on. Let it all go.

[CityGirl]

So let me get this straight.... your W asked you for a separation agreement when she first left and you said no because a DB coach and a few attnys told you not to. But now you are wondering why your W is STILL pissed that you don't listen to her or respect her decisions?

HELLO!?

Look, I am sure the DB coaches are fine people with lots to offer but anybody knows the longer you try and put off legal matters the worse it will be. If the attnys told you to wait my guess is there was some legal avenue there that would work in your favor to wait (house, money... something) but I can assure you it was NOT for emotional reasons. Attnys practice law and advise people based on LAW - not feelings or hope.

I think you are a nice guy but you are so nit picky about details when you need to look at the bigger picture. Your W wanted a separation agreement and you said no. She knew you said no so she tried to initiate *something* with the house papers and you said no. Now you are nit picking that it wasn't a separation request? That is EXACTLY what it was and you once again said NO. She has tried more than once to NOT be legally married to you and each time you said no. The second that house is sold you will be served which is far more dramatic than agreeing to a separation agreement.

You want her to "try" but she is trying... just not in the way you want. She is trying to change things but it's the opposite direction than what you want. You will only see her "trying" when it's the way you want.

And you know what? ALL LBS EVENTUALLY HAVE TO FIGURE THAT OUT ON THEIR OWN. Know what else? It's brutal and painful but the truth.

Your W about lost her mind when you sent her flowers yet you are surprised she *still* won't work on things? As I said - she is working on things just not the way you want them to be worked on.

Your W doesn't want to be part of the house process - she wants her money and she wants it sold. I do agree she needs to put in effort or else she should get less money but forcing her to help won't show her consequences in the way you want. In fact, she will become more difficult than she already is. Why would you want somebody that can't deal with adult situations helping you? It's simple business - her lack of skills equals greater compensation for you. It is what it is.

I know you know all this! This isn't about a house or a difficult financial time.

Your C said to "let go". What steps did he advise you to take that are action orientated?