Not sure where to start, or end. WAW?

[john28]

I'm not sure what to do about the house at this point.

I'm in the house. Pictures of us are up everywhere. What have you people done in the past? Boxed all that up? Removed it? Left it?

I honestly feel like leaving it the same as it is. That feels like the right thing to do. I still love my W, still want to be with her, and feel like it would be a slap in the face if she saw me take all that stuff down. She felt like I slapped her in the face when I told her she couldn't come back home, hated me for it. Said that was the last straw that she couldn't take.

She said that when I told her she couldn't come back into "her home" that she saw a side of me that she hated, and never knew how she fell in love with that man. When we had that moment the day after she left, she wanted to come home but I told her no over and over. I had set a boundary of her not coming back into the home until she dropped all this S and D talk, committed to MC and working on our M. Instead, it turned out that she might have wanted to come back and work on the M, but after that boundary was upheld by me she'll never come back. Her words.

[Coach]

I'm not sure what to do about the house at this point.

I'm in the house. Pictures of us are up everywhere. What have you people done in the past? Boxed all that up? Removed it? Left it?

I honestly feel like leaving it the same as it is. That feels like the right thing to do. I still love my W, still want to be with her, and feel like it would be a slap in the face if she saw me take all that stuff down. She felt like I slapped her in the face when I told her she couldn't come back home, hated me for it. Said that was the last straw that she couldn't take.

She said that when I told her she couldn't come back into "her home" that she saw a side of me that she hated, and never knew how she fell in love with that man. When we had that moment the day after she left, she wanted to come home but I told her no over and over. I had set a boundary of her not coming back into the home until she dropped all this S and D talk, committed to MC and working on our M. Instead, it turned out that she might have wanted to come back and work on the M, but after that boundary was upheld by me she'll never come back. Her words.

Script

She's mad because you changed how the game has been played. Don't buy it.

[john28]

At dinner tonight we were talking and somehow the subject of Friday came up, I told her I was having friends over that night (I really am, bunch of guys poker game).

She looked at me and said, "I hate feeling like this. I can't ask you who is coming. Whether or not there are any women coming over. I hate this feeling. I want to know but I can't ask. Promise me that you won't let them mess with my stuff. You would have enough respect to do that wouldn't you?"

I just nodded, told her I would respect that.
Didn't say who was coming.

I don't get it. She says in MC she just "wants to get through ASAP and move on with her life", but just 30 minutes later at dinner she is worried about who is coming over? Why?

What is that supposed to mean? Did I do something right here for once?

[Coach]

Answer:

Mess with her stuff.

[john28]

Answer:

Mess with her stuff.

What? Why would I do that?

She has said over and over one of my biggest problems is "not following through" with anything I promise to do. This right here seems mean and counter-intuitive.

But if you have a really good reason I'd do it

[Lotus]

I've said it before and I'll say it again,.....she's confused. She's ambivalent. She wants a divorce. She wants a happy marriage. She loves you. She hates you. That's life. Those are emotions. She is being swept over by emotions. As long as she is confused and has feelings in both directions, that is good. It's when she only has negative feelings or no feelings at all that things are really bad.

Have your friends over. Don't mess with her stuff. Respect. Everyone wants respect. She's trusting you by leaving her stuff there. If she can tell that people went through it, then she will move all her stuff out. If you want her to trust you, you have to be trust-worthy. In everything that you do.

[john28]

Thanks Lotus. That's what I was thinking. I want her to start trusting me again. She doesn't at all.

[john28]

I hit the journal a little bit tonight. I've been reading No More Mr. Nice Guy and I felt important to write this down so I can remember it.

It's for all you H's and W's out there that have been told you are "controlling" or "manipulative"

8/25/10 - 10:28pm
I have needs. Yet, I don’t express them clearly. I don’t ever come right out and say, “I need this. I need more sex. I need more loving touches. I need more notes dropped by my nightstand that say I love you.”
Instead, what I’ve done in my relationship with my wife – and quite frankly – every relationship I have with any individual or friend is to create hidden agendas to fulfill my needs. It’s unconscious until now. I create these unspoken agreements that are the primary way I get my needs met. Every time I need something, or want something, I create a covert contract.
This contract always says:
“I will do _______ for you, so that you will do _________ for me. Then we’ll both act like there is no awareness of this contract that I’m secretly putting in place.”
Instead of just giving to be loving or helpful (true giving), I’m just giving to get. That’s stupid. I love my wife and my friends, why would I just give to them and ALWAYS expect something in return. My wife has told me this many times over, maybe not in these words, but she’s said it. I’ve never seen it.
I’ve heard:
“You always expect to get praise for doing the littlest of things around the house”
“You expect sex when you’ve been nice to me for a few hours”
“You do things around the house and then expect me to give you validation for being a good husband.”
That hurts to look at it that way. I’m just giving and giving, expecting to get and get. That’s not real giving. That’s manipulation.
One thing that I can think of that I do all the time is leaning into my wife’s ear and saying “I Love You.” Then I wait expectantly for her to respond with “I Love You, Too.” This is just another example of a covert contract that I make DAILY. That’s the basic way I get my needs met. Saying I love you first to get and I love you back is just indirect and manipulative.
Why don’t I just say, “I need you to say I love you more to me so that I can have my needs met. Can you do that so that I feel loved?”
I also find that I get my needs met by focusing on other people problems instead of my own. Basically, taking care of someone else. Why do I do this? I think it makes me feel valuable or to avoid dealing with my own problems and feelings. What do I do when I do this kind of caretaking?
- By giving to others what I need
- My taking care of you comes from a place of emptiness in myself just so I can feel good about myself
- My caretaking is just another form of giving that has strings attached.
What should I be doing? Well, certainly not that. I should be
- Giving to you what YOU need, not me.
- It should come from a place of abundance in my heart, not trying to fill my own.
- It shouldn’t have any strings attached.
An easy example of this behavior is when I think my wife is down, I start to give her a back rub, hold her hand, surprise her with gifts, buy her clothes… you name it. I think that by giving her those kinds of things (which I would really want to receive) it takes the focus off of HER true needs, and replaces them with my own. What she really needed was for me just to be there, listen, and respond with loving conversation and support.
But instead, I am selfish and respond to her needs with my own, ultimately fulfilling my needs instead of hers.
That’s not good.
So all in all, the cycle of this type of behavior is at a core:
1. I give to others hoping to get something in return.
2. When it doesn’t look like I am getting as much as I am giving (in my mind) I get frustrated and resentful.
3. When that frustration and resentment builds up, I lash out at others. Particularly my wife. How so? I’m:
a. Passive Aggressive
b. Pouting
c. Tantrums
d. Shaming
e. Criticizing
f. Blaming
g. Cold and Distant
h. Moody
i. Controlling
j. Manipulative
That’s not a very loving person, John, is it? Why can’t you just truly give?
It’s because I’m in this vicious cycle that I can’t seem to break before now (I hope). It’s what I’ve been doing my entire life. Trying to “buy” other people’s love and affection. And what happens when I ultimately end up repeating this cycle? The person that I’m trying to buy love with become more resentful. What do I do then? I accuse them of not loving ME, not caring about ME, not noticing how good of a person I AM. Me. Me. ME. ME.
Selfish. Utterly selfish.
My wife has said I was selfish before. That I only thought about myself first. Well, honey, you’re right. I thought I was helping you by giving you love – but what was I really giving you? Something so I could get something – or worse, giving you something that I wanted. That’s terrible.
What’s the cycle that I keep repeating? I hope I can identify it:
1. I try to buy love with a covert contract
2. The person I’m trying to buy doesn’t respond in a way that I want
3. I accuse that person of essentially not loving me, or I lash out at them
4. That person gets upset and says I’m being selfish/[censored]/criticizing/cold – whether it is in their mind or spoken with words
5. I feel frightened and remorseful that I might lose their love
6. I pursue to fix the problem that I’ve just created (While I’m resenting that person for not loving me)
7. I start caretaking, pleasing, and again – trying to buy love with a covert contract
Time to break the cycle.
What do I do to break it? Well, I have to start giving love as a GIFT. Not as a way of getting something I need or want. If I could start giving people what they need, instead of what I need, without any string attached, I wouldn’t have to be frightened to lose their love. I’d just have it.

[john28]

Accept where you are, move to where you want to be.

PH, that's the best advice that has sunk in so far in my entire sitch. Thank you.

[Lotus]

I hope that she will still go to Retrouvaille with you. Your willingness to look within and make changes would help you there. If both people can do that, it is a win/win situation.