Well, our last (maybe) anniversary went off without a hitch. I picked the kids up at her place, she was irritated because she thought I was late, even though I told her I'd be there "sometime after". I just let it go and kind of laughed to myself.
On walking out the door, I told her "By the way, happy anniversary" and gave her a hug. She said "Happy anniversary" and hugged me back.
Spent the day with the kids, had a nice dinner, got the kids to bed, and then celebrated by myself with a bottle of wine. I looked at our wedding photos and remembered what a great day it was. Not sad at all, more happy at the memory of such a great party.
I noticed a message on the answering machine. It was my W, sounding a little down but who knows, saying "Hey it's me. Just thought I'd give you a call". I called her cell but she didn't pick up. I left her a message to call as I'd be up for a while, but didn't hear back from her.
The next day she stopped over to talk about some logistics around her new job. I asked if she'd gotten my message the evening before, and she said "Oh. Yeah, I was just calling to say some prayers with the kids."
I wonder.
WAW Using God Me-43 W-40 M-14 S-11 S-9 D-7 EABomb 5/09 Separated 12/09
Haven't posted here in a week, so just journaling:
W is quite perturbed at the recent rejection from our "shared" (quotes hers) friends. A close friend recently chewed her ass out over dinner, just letting her know how she felt about her behavior. She had been wanting to do so for quite a long time. W told me about it but didn't go into any detail and I didn't probe or offer any comment. W called her a bit** and said she was going to "write her off". This is a friend she has been pretty close to for 16 years, and is a mutual friend, along with her husband.
W sent out letters to raise funds for her upcoming mission trip. Not surprising that she got a very cool response from our shared friends, and has raised only about 10 percent of the money required, from about 4 people from church and her old employer. She is somehow surprised and irritated by this.
She even sent out an email to some mutual friends offering to give them "her side" of our story. As if you can somehow justify an affair. But all along I have told her that I have never "thrown her under the bus" in telling others about our situation, and have always maintained that the state of the marriage is shared 50-50.
One of our male friends (who is much closer to me than my W) who doesn't mince words took her up on the offer. He kind of called her out on her email and stated that I have always been factual in discussing the marriage and take more of a position of protecting/warning friends about complacency in their own marriage. I'm guessing she may have been surprised by this, but who knows.
I have entered a mode of treating her like the oblivious annoying coworker who everyone avoids. When she starts going on about offenses that any person with self awareness would recognize as being caused by their own horrible behavior, I just sit quietly and try not to say anything to extend the conversation. I find a mild amusement in it, and feel somewhat proud at my new ability to avoid being baited into arguments with irrational people.
Still haven't gotten the paperwork back from my L yet; no real rush now since she won't be getting anything done on it until after her mission trip in September. But I am becoming more and more comfortable with the notion of ending this relationship and just getting on with dealing with the unpleasantness of still having to deal with it until our youngest is 18...
WAW Using God Me-43 W-40 M-14 S-11 S-9 D-7 EABomb 5/09 Separated 12/09
Got a text from my friend of 35 years: "Based on what Tiger's doing maybe your golf game will improve after you've signed on the dotted line" (Making a joke in reference to Tiger Woods shooting one of his best rounds of the year yesterday, just a couple of days after his divorce was final).
I laughed at it. Good to be able to joke about this. Extreme detachment...
WAW Using God Me-43 W-40 M-14 S-11 S-9 D-7 EABomb 5/09 Separated 12/09
Got an email from a pastor at my W's church expressing his sadness that his attempt to reason with my W and the OM apparently did not do any good.
W called to discuss some logistics with the kids and it turned into a 2 hour R talk. I told her that I heard from her pastor, since she has expressed feelings that things are going on behind her back. I was just being open about it, since I know the pastor is only trying to help.
She talked about feeling overwhelmed with everything - her demanding volunteer work, new job, 3 kids in school and the shuffling around relating to that, our "shared" friends turning away from her, et. al.
We rehashed a lot of stuff, including that she wants to see concrete evidence of me changing, and me telling her I have changed but I won't pursue her while she has another man, and that it is impossible to show her changes when she is not around. She still tried to say it was just a close friendship, but I told her she was just rationalizing and the relationship is totally inappropriate.
She said things that would be encouraging had I not heard the same things months before. She claimed she has "reached out" to me but I rejected it. I told her that her attempts at reaching out were very veiled if they were genuine attempts. That I won't accept any reaching out while she is trying to juggle two men. I will not be the guy on the back burner.
She said I am not on the back burner; "You are the father of my children." I told her plainly if she really was serious about reaching out, tell me one simple sentence - "I am done with this affair and I am serious about reconciling."
She went on to talk about how she thought it would be impossible to never see the OM anywhere. "How am I going to know what church service he is going to? Would you tell me I have to leave my church and find another one? If I am leading a volunteer effort would I have to say that he could not volunteer for a committee I was on?"
She doesn't seem to get the fact that this is an addiction and any contact would do harm to any reconciliation we were attempting. I did say that no, I would not force her to find another church, but that our marriage would have to take precedence over anything regarding the church. Not her relationship with God, but she would need to never put herself in position to be in contact with him. If he truly cares about you, tell him to leave you the hell alone.
Then I put it to her straight "Answer me - do you want to try?" She paused. I told her that her not giving me an immediate "no" might be perceived as progress, but that I don't see any enthusiasm for the question. She said she still has some soul searching to do to be sure. Which is basically the same garbage I've heard time and again when it seemed she was cracking.
She did end by saying "Maybe I need to get down to the root cause of what I really am expecting to see from you; what is keeping me from believing that things would be different and we would not fall back into the same old rut."
She said she wanted "soul searching" from me - looking at what "I" thought were the ways I hurt her and how I plan to do things differently from now on. I just reminded her that I never argued about any of the things she raised as being problems. I totally agreed with her that I did not respond adequately in those situations. But short of going back in time, it is impossible to PROVE that I would act differently in the future; recognizing her feelings, stating my understanding and telling her I can't see myself responding in the same way today is all I can offer.
It is a catch 22 - she wants to see the changes and I want her to drop the affair before I do anything to put myself out there again.
I assured her that she will see everything she wants and more, but I will not tolerate her involvement with another person. She has to recommit herself to the marriage.
So two similar talks within a short period of time (we spoke at length a couple of weeks ago as well), both of which addressed reconciliation. Could be progress, could be the same old spew. I remain as before - marching forward toward dissolution until I see real concrete commitment. Not there yet.
WAW Using God Me-43 W-40 M-14 S-11 S-9 D-7 EABomb 5/09 Separated 12/09
That I won't accept any reaching out while she is trying to juggle two men. I will not be the guy on the back burner.
But you ARE the guy on the back burner. I know it, she knows it. Your talk means nothing because your actions show something quite different.
Quote:
I told her plainly if she really was serious about reaching out, tell me one simple sentence - "I am done with this affair and I am serious about reconciling."
That is your mistake.That is nothing but pursuit. It is the exact same thing as telling her that "I am on the back burner and am only waiting for you to tell me that you are done with the affair. Once you tell me that, I will jump off the back burner and take you back so fast your head will spin. I can't tell you how frustrating it is to not be able to show you my many changes. I still want you back and I will still take you back if you stop the affair."
THAT is being on the back burner no matter how you slice it. You need to let her think that you WILL NOT TAKE HER BACK NOW NO MATTER WHAT SHE DOES....
That is taking yourself off the back burner. She knows she can have you back at any time because you keep telling her how you have changed and things will be different. It should be YOU telling her what she is telling you and it should be her saying the things to you that you are telling her. This only proves you are the pursing one and she is the one backing off. it should be the other way around.
You are lying to yourself with this talk of not being on the back burner. It is just talk and isn't being in the least followed up by action. You should be telling her it now doesn't matter who is right or wrong and that you have now decieded that it just isn't going to work between you as lovers and that it would be best if you divorced. That she is right in that maybe you can't change and maybe you couldn't forgive each other for the past...
Not only that, but you have even told her that you don't want the divorce and yet you are filing... That is WEAK... You should be saying.. "You better believe I want this divorce. I will NOT be with a woman that can't be faithful. I won't be with one. End of story. Nothing more to talk about. See you in court."
THAT is how you let them go. There is no catch 22. You aren't being honest with yourself.
When I read it, I liked the way Pigskin handled the situations, but after reading Gucci's post, I have to agree with him. I am having a hard time with completely letting go too Pigskin, but we have to take the advice of Gucci and the other pros to heart. They know how to do this.
It is time to stand-up and say "This is over because I want it to be over."
It's still so difficult to see pursuing on our part. For me, anyway. When I read Gucchi's breakdown of the post, I can see where things could have been handled differently. I don't want to throw Pigskin under the bus. He did pretty good. It simply show you how hard it is to really, truly and fully let go. I know I'm not there yet, either.
It also shows that we do still have time to get it right. Yes, his W sounds like she is cake eating and she knows that he wants her back. She has yet to do anything about it. If he does tell her it's over because he want it over, will that make a difference? It may. Then again it may not. I know that anything is better than limbo. I also understand holding on to hope. It seems so final to give in and let them go, when that seems to be the only thing that works, if anything will work.
I agree. You are trying to play both sides and it doesn't work. You said early on that you would never D because it went against your beliefs and values (I understand that). Then you filed for D. It comes across in your posts, if we can sense it then imagine what you wife feels.
Not a 2x4 but a observation from my perspective.
Cheers
M22,H45,W45 S21/18D12 Retain faith that you will prevail in the end, regardless of the difficulties and at the same time confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.
